Frost: but that

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Marius Hancu - 28 Feb 2010 10:55 GMT

Hello:

1. "The bird would cease." What would it cease, singing or being
special?

2. I stumble at that "but that" which has various meanings. Which is
the one here?
Is it perhaps:
"But that he knows"="That only he knows?"

---
The Oven Bird
...
The bird would cease and be as other birds
But that he knows in singing not to sing.
The question that he frames in all but words
Is what to make of a diminished thing.
...
Robert Frost, p. 120
http://everything2.com/user/RockLobster/writeups/The+Oven+Bird
---
Thanks.
Marius Hancu

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Cheryl - 28 Feb 2010 11:09 GMT

> Hello:
>
> 1. "The bird would cease." What would it cease, singing or being
> special?

Both, really. It would cease singing, but the singing is what makes it
special, so it would also cease being special.

> 2. I stumble at that "but that" which has various meanings. Which is
> the one here?
> Is it perhaps:
> "But that he knows"="That only he knows?"

No, I think it means "Except". Except the bird knows while singing, not
to sing.

It's a paradox. A quick google seems to indicate that it has something
to do with either the idea that that particular bird's song is
unmusical, therefore it is not really 'singing', or that the bird can't
really sing without being able to deal with 'diminished things' - the
flowers are gone, the leaves are old, everything's dusty.

> ---
> The Oven Bird
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Thanks.
> Marius Hancu

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Cheryl

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Marius Hancu - 28 Feb 2010 11:14 GMT

> > 1. "The bird would cease." What would it cease, singing or being
> > special?
>
> Both, really. It would cease singing, but the singing is what makes it
> special, so it would also cease being special.

Right.

> > 2. I stumble at that "but that" which has various meanings. Which is
> > the one here?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> No, I think it means "Except". Except the bird knows while singing, not
> to sing.

OK.

> It's a paradox. A quick google seems to indicate that it has something
> to do with either the idea that that particular bird's song is
> unmusical,

Interesting. Found something, wasn't this clear.

> therefore it is not really 'singing', or that the bird can't
> really sing without being able to deal with 'diminished things' - the
> flowers are gone, the leaves are old, everything's dusty.

Nice turn, Mr. Frost:)

> > ---
> > The Oven Bird
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> > The question that he frames in all but words
> > Is what to make of a diminished thing.

Thanks.
Marius Hancu

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Jeffrey Turner - 28 Feb 2010 22:49 GMT

>> Hello:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Both, really. It would cease singing, but the singing is what makes it
> special, so it would also cease being special.

I disagree. I think it only refers to being special. He might sing
differently if he didn't know not to sing while singing. He might
sing in a more musical way.

--Jeff

>> ---
>> The Oven Bird
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> Robert Frost, p. 120
>> http://everything2.com/user/RockLobster/writeups/The+Oven+Bird

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Love consists of overestimating
the differences between one woman
and another. --George Bernard Shaw

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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010

Frost: but that