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What is a deprofessionalised intellectual?

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Vinny Burgoo - 27 Mar 2010 21:11 GMT
What is a deprofessionalised intellectual?

'Gustavo Esteva is a deprofessionalised intellectual based in Oaxaca,
Mexico. He is an advisor to the Zapatistas and founder of Universidad
de la Tierra in Oaxaca'

--
VB
Do you have to wear a balaclava?
CDB - 27 Mar 2010 21:44 GMT
> What is a deprofessionalised intellectual?
>
> 'Gustavo Esteva is a deprofessionalised intellectual based in
> Oaxaca, Mexico. He is an advisor to the Zapatistas and founder of
> Universidad de la Tierra in Oaxaca'

The Real Academia says there's no such word as "deprofesionalizar",
but I found it in a powerpoint text, heading a list that went on
"decentralizar, demistificar, democratizar".  I would guess your man
is "popular, popularizing".  A public intellectual like unto our own
dear Iggy, perhaps.
Vinny Burgoo - 30 Mar 2010 18:06 GMT
> > What is a deprofessionalised intellectual?
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> is "popular, popularizing".  A public intellectual like unto our own
> dear Iggy, perhaps.

Well, colour me mocratized!

Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions and comments. I followed up on
a few of them and it seems that deprofessionalizing is a notion
dreamed up by Ivan Illich, an anarchist social theorist. It is to the
professions what deschooling is to schools. As far as I can tell, the
overall aim is ... Dunno. Like a lot this stuff, it seems to be more
about playing with words and dropping names than proposing a coherent
course of action. For some people, deschooling is child-centred
learning, for others it's home-schooling, and for at least one
deschooling expert (a contradiction in terms, that much is clear) it's
throwing away your fridge magnets, starting dream-diaries and taking
your children window-shopping. At root, both deschooling and
deprofessionalizing are probably about doing your own thing and not
being a tool of The Man.

Unsurprisingly, Illich is popular with the crustier, mutt-on-a-length-
of-baling-twine, anti-GM, anti-nuke, anti-roads, anti-airports, anti-
meat, anti-globalisation, anti-America, anti-Israel, anti-banker end
of the carbonista movement. They like his 'Ban The Man'
antiestablishmentarianism (and probably his incoherence) and are
especially impressed that he was one of the first to call for the
creation of a low-energy society. But because they rely on Holy
Peereviewedscience to justify their antics, they are less keen on
quoting Illich's thoughts on scientists. He saw them as an overmighty
secular priesthood, a view that's shared by many denialists of the gun-
toting, it's-all-a-hoax, anti-abortion, anti-Obama, anti-healthcare,
anti-banker (nobody likes bankers) variety. That lot is also anti-
intellectual, so they haven't discovered Illich yet. If they ever do,
with any luck we'll get both sets of maniacs using the same Illich
quote to justify opposing propositions. As it is, at the moment
there's only the mildly amusing spectacle of wild-eyed weirdy-beardies
brandishing Illich while banging on about the unimpeachable authority
of climate experts.

--
VB
'If combustion continues to increase at present rates we will consume
the oxygen of the atmosphere faster than it can be replaced. We can
then calculate the day when we will wither like mice locked into a jar
with a burning candle.' - Ivan Illich, 1970
R H Draney - 27 Mar 2010 21:47 GMT
Vinny Burgoo filted:

>What is a deprofessionalised intellectual?
>
>'Gustavo Esteva is a deprofessionalised intellectual based in Oaxaca,
>Mexico. He is an advisor to the Zapatistas and founder of Universidad
>de la Tierra in Oaxaca'

A really smart person who loses his job....r

Signature

"Oy!  A cat made of lead cannot fly."
- Mark Brader declaims a basic scientific principle

HVS - 28 Mar 2010 01:35 GMT
On 27 Mar 2010, R H Draney wrote

> Vinny Burgoo filted:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> A really smart person who loses his job....r

...which undoubtedly was in academia.  I'd guess it's someone who's also been
thrown out of whatever professional institute he used to belong to.

Signature

Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed

Arcadian Rises - 28 Mar 2010 02:03 GMT
> Vinny Burgoo filted:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> A really smart person who loses his job....r

Or a really smart person who sold out, like a PhD in art history who
sells computers.
Robin Bignall - 28 Mar 2010 14:50 GMT
>> Vinny Burgoo filted:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Or a really smart person who sold out, like a PhD in art history who
>sells computers.

It's interesting that that's thought of as "selling out".  I met many
PhDs in my working life, in all sorts of subjects.  Only a handful
were qualified in computer science but they all worked in various
aspects of marketing computers.
Signature

Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 27 Mar 2010 21:58 GMT
>What is a deprofessionalised intellectual?
>
>'Gustavo Esteva is a deprofessionalised intellectual based in Oaxaca,
>Mexico. He is an advisor to the Zapatistas and founder of Universidad
>de la Tierra in Oaxaca'

I see that Wikipedia has the phrase in scare-quotes: "deprofessionalized
intellectual".

Might it be a self-description, and translated fron Spanish?

He is quoted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustavo_Esteva

   "At 15, I was forced to support an extended family of siblings,
   aunts and cousins, becoming first an office-boy in a bank; and,
   then, thanks to Truman's Development, the youngest executive ever
   for IBM. Thanks to the Development experts and their Education
   projects for underdeveloped Mexicans, I had arrived!!! With my newly
   minted education credit hours, I could be at the very center of the
   Development Epic: providing good services to the community, good
   conditions for the workers and good profits to the stakeholders;
   while of course, gaining a solid income, prestige and a sports
   car. Part of my function, as personnel manager, was to contribute to
   a process of indoctrination that forged loyalty of the workers to
   the company. The workers had to submit to that ideological
   straightjacket, according to which to struggle for the good of the
   company meant to struggle for one’s own interests." Etc.

"Deprofessionalized" possibly means having escaped from that
environment.

I would not, myself, use "professionalized" to mean having submitted to
such an environment. There are better words, if only I could think of
them.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Garrett Wollman - 27 Mar 2010 22:15 GMT
>"Deprofessionalized" possibly means having escaped from that
>environment.

Plausible.

>I would not, myself, use "professionalized" to mean having submitted to
>such an environment. There are better words, if only I could think of
>them.

"Professionalized" to me would carry the implication of a *regulated*
or official profession, such as law, medicine, or civil engineering.

-GAWollman

Signature

Garrett A. Wollman    | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers.         | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 27 Mar 2010 22:43 GMT
>"Professionalized" to me would carry the implication of a *regulated*
>or official profession, such as law, medicine, or civil engineering.

To me too.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Frank ess - 27 Mar 2010 23:54 GMT
>> "Professionalized" to me would carry the implication of a
>> *regulated* or official profession, such as law, medicine, or
>> civil engineering.
>
> To me too.

The parallel within my ken is "institutionalized" and
"deinstitutionalized", which referred to criminals and delinquent or
abandoned children, but could apply equally well to the former IBM
inmate; "deprofessionalized" might allow for the same effect but less
negative connotation.

Signature

Frank ess

R H Draney - 28 Mar 2010 04:28 GMT
Garrett Wollman filted:

>>"Deprofessionalized" possibly means having escaped from that
>>environment.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>"Professionalized" to me would carry the implication of a *regulated*
>or official profession, such as law, medicine, or civil engineering.

And "deprofessionalized" might imply stripping the professional of his right to
practice that profession, such as disbarring a lawyer....r

Signature

"Oy!  A cat made of lead cannot fly."
- Mark Brader declaims a basic scientific principle

Arcadian Rises - 28 Mar 2010 13:19 GMT
> Garrett Wollman filted:
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> And "deprofessionalized" might imply stripping the professional of his right to
> practice that profession, such as disbarring a lawyer....r

Or disbenching a judge. Or is it "benching"?
Eric Walker - 27 Mar 2010 23:34 GMT
[...]

>     The workers had to submit to that ideological straightjacket . . .

I assume he refers to a straitjacket.

Signature

Cordially,
Eric Walker, Owlcroft House
http://owlcroft.com/english/

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 28 Mar 2010 00:16 GMT
>[...]
>
>>     The workers had to submit to that ideological straightjacket . . .
>
>I assume he refers to a straitjacket.

Very probably. Because of the intellectual restrictions imposed on him
he could be described as having been in dire straits.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

CDB - 28 Mar 2010 13:17 GMT
>> What is a deprofessionalised intellectual?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Might it be a self-description, and translated fron Spanish?

Almost certainly a transposition.  That's why I went looking for
"deprofesionalizar".

> He is quoted:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustavo_Esteva
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> "Deprofessionalized" possibly means having escaped from that
> environment.

I agree, although I approached it from another angle.  I see nothing
in the article (thanks)about breaches with academic or professional
societies, and a great deal about being a man of the common people.
"Deprofessionalised" in the sense that all professions are
conspiracies against the laity.

> I would not, myself, use "professionalized" to mean having
> submitted to such an environment. There are better words, if only I
> could think of them.

"Sellout"?  Those were the days.
Don Phillipson - 27 Mar 2010 22:18 GMT
> What is a deprofessionalised intellectual?
>
> 'Gustavo Esteva is a deprofessionalised intellectual based in Oaxaca,
> Mexico. He is an advisor to the Zapatistas and founder of Universidad
> de la Tierra in Oaxaca'

"Professionalized" usually means that someone's normal
work is in a recognized profession, which in turn usually
means that practice is controlled, but by colleagues in the same
profession rather than by non-specialists.   For example
architects may in some places be subject to professional
requirements and prohibitions:  so that a deprofessionalized
architect would be someone designing buildings and perhaps
supervising their construction, but without or in defiance of
local professional norms.   Conditions may vary with
professions (e.g. law, medical practice, journalism, electrical
engineering, accountancy.)

Signature

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Tom P - 29 Mar 2010 23:53 GMT
> What is a deprofessionalised intellectual?
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> VB
> Do you have to wear a balaclava?

It sounds like an example of a translator desperate for a word.

Here's what his website says:
"Gustavo Esteva es un escritor independiente y un activista. Forma parte
del segmento desprofesionalizado de la comunidad intelectual del Sur y
ha jugado un papel importante en la fundación de diversas coaliciones y
redes mexicanas, latinoamericanas e internacionales."

Google gets 2,000 hits, mostly Latin America. Looking at other contexts
it seems to mean non-academic, non-professional, also unprofessional in
a derogatory sense. Also used either an adjective or as a past tense
particle - "deprofessionalised".  Oops, that was the question.
Lewis - 30 Mar 2010 11:27 GMT
>> What is a deprofessionalised intellectual?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> VB
>> Do you have to wear a balaclava?

> It sounds like an example of a translator desperate for a word.

> Here's what his website says:
> "Gustavo Esteva es un escritor independiente y un activista. Forma parte
> del segmento desprofesionalizado de la comunidad intelectual del Sur y
> ha jugado un papel importante en la fundación de diversas coaliciones y
> redes mexicanas, latinoamericanas e internacionales."

I think this says that he "is an independent writer and activist. He
forms part of the unskilled segment of the intellectual community" which
is not exactly what it would mean in English.

Basically it is saying that he does not have a job that requires either
a license or a professional association to do. He is not a teacher, a
pharmacist, a doctor, &c. He is also not a journalist in the sense of
having Press credentials, but he maybe a journalist as an freelancer
(independent writer could mean freelancer).

> Google gets 2,000 hits, mostly Latin America. Looking at other contexts
> it seems to mean non-academic, non-professional, also unprofessional in
> a derogatory sense. Also used either an adjective or as a past tense
> particle - "deprofessionalised".  Oops, that was the question.

hmm. I don't think it's derogatory. I could find out though, if people
really care.

Signature

Supposing there was justice for all, after all? For every unheeded beggar,
every harsh word, every neglected duty, every slight... every choice... Because
that was the point, wasn't it? You had to choose. You might be right, you might
be wrong, but you had to choose, knowing that the rightness or wrongness might
never be clear or even that you were deciding between two sorts of wrong, that
there was no right anywhere. And always, always, you did it by yourself. You
were the one there, on the edge, watching and listening. Never any tears, never
any apology, never any regrets... You saved all that up in a way that could be
used when needed. --Carpe Jugulum

 
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