What is a deprofessionalised intellectual?
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Vinny Burgoo - 27 Mar 2010 21:11 GMT What is a deprofessionalised intellectual?
'Gustavo Esteva is a deprofessionalised intellectual based in Oaxaca, Mexico. He is an advisor to the Zapatistas and founder of Universidad de la Tierra in Oaxaca'
-- VB Do you have to wear a balaclava?
CDB - 27 Mar 2010 21:44 GMT > What is a deprofessionalised intellectual? > > 'Gustavo Esteva is a deprofessionalised intellectual based in > Oaxaca, Mexico. He is an advisor to the Zapatistas and founder of > Universidad de la Tierra in Oaxaca' The Real Academia says there's no such word as "deprofesionalizar", but I found it in a powerpoint text, heading a list that went on "decentralizar, demistificar, democratizar". I would guess your man is "popular, popularizing". A public intellectual like unto our own dear Iggy, perhaps.
Vinny Burgoo - 30 Mar 2010 18:06 GMT > > What is a deprofessionalised intellectual? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > is "popular, popularizing". A public intellectual like unto our own > dear Iggy, perhaps. Well, colour me mocratized!
Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions and comments. I followed up on a few of them and it seems that deprofessionalizing is a notion dreamed up by Ivan Illich, an anarchist social theorist. It is to the professions what deschooling is to schools. As far as I can tell, the overall aim is ... Dunno. Like a lot this stuff, it seems to be more about playing with words and dropping names than proposing a coherent course of action. For some people, deschooling is child-centred learning, for others it's home-schooling, and for at least one deschooling expert (a contradiction in terms, that much is clear) it's throwing away your fridge magnets, starting dream-diaries and taking your children window-shopping. At root, both deschooling and deprofessionalizing are probably about doing your own thing and not being a tool of The Man.
Unsurprisingly, Illich is popular with the crustier, mutt-on-a-length- of-baling-twine, anti-GM, anti-nuke, anti-roads, anti-airports, anti- meat, anti-globalisation, anti-America, anti-Israel, anti-banker end of the carbonista movement. They like his 'Ban The Man' antiestablishmentarianism (and probably his incoherence) and are especially impressed that he was one of the first to call for the creation of a low-energy society. But because they rely on Holy Peereviewedscience to justify their antics, they are less keen on quoting Illich's thoughts on scientists. He saw them as an overmighty secular priesthood, a view that's shared by many denialists of the gun- toting, it's-all-a-hoax, anti-abortion, anti-Obama, anti-healthcare, anti-banker (nobody likes bankers) variety. That lot is also anti- intellectual, so they haven't discovered Illich yet. If they ever do, with any luck we'll get both sets of maniacs using the same Illich quote to justify opposing propositions. As it is, at the moment there's only the mildly amusing spectacle of wild-eyed weirdy-beardies brandishing Illich while banging on about the unimpeachable authority of climate experts.
-- VB 'If combustion continues to increase at present rates we will consume the oxygen of the atmosphere faster than it can be replaced. We can then calculate the day when we will wither like mice locked into a jar with a burning candle.' - Ivan Illich, 1970
R H Draney - 27 Mar 2010 21:47 GMT Vinny Burgoo filted:
>What is a deprofessionalised intellectual? > >'Gustavo Esteva is a deprofessionalised intellectual based in Oaxaca, >Mexico. He is an advisor to the Zapatistas and founder of Universidad >de la Tierra in Oaxaca' A really smart person who loses his job....r
 Signature "Oy! A cat made of lead cannot fly." - Mark Brader declaims a basic scientific principle
HVS - 28 Mar 2010 01:35 GMT On 27 Mar 2010, R H Draney wrote
> Vinny Burgoo filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > A really smart person who loses his job....r ...which undoubtedly was in academia. I'd guess it's someone who's also been thrown out of whatever professional institute he used to belong to.
 Signature Cheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Arcadian Rises - 28 Mar 2010 02:03 GMT > Vinny Burgoo filted: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > A really smart person who loses his job....r Or a really smart person who sold out, like a PhD in art history who sells computers.
Robin Bignall - 28 Mar 2010 14:50 GMT >> Vinny Burgoo filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Or a really smart person who sold out, like a PhD in art history who >sells computers. It's interesting that that's thought of as "selling out". I met many PhDs in my working life, in all sorts of subjects. Only a handful were qualified in computer science but they all worked in various aspects of marketing computers.
 Signature Robin (BrE) Herts, England
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 27 Mar 2010 21:58 GMT >What is a deprofessionalised intellectual? > >'Gustavo Esteva is a deprofessionalised intellectual based in Oaxaca, >Mexico. He is an advisor to the Zapatistas and founder of Universidad >de la Tierra in Oaxaca' I see that Wikipedia has the phrase in scare-quotes: "deprofessionalized intellectual".
Might it be a self-description, and translated fron Spanish?
He is quoted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustavo_Esteva
"At 15, I was forced to support an extended family of siblings, aunts and cousins, becoming first an office-boy in a bank; and, then, thanks to Truman's Development, the youngest executive ever for IBM. Thanks to the Development experts and their Education projects for underdeveloped Mexicans, I had arrived!!! With my newly minted education credit hours, I could be at the very center of the Development Epic: providing good services to the community, good conditions for the workers and good profits to the stakeholders; while of course, gaining a solid income, prestige and a sports car. Part of my function, as personnel manager, was to contribute to a process of indoctrination that forged loyalty of the workers to the company. The workers had to submit to that ideological straightjacket, according to which to struggle for the good of the company meant to struggle for one’s own interests." Etc.
"Deprofessionalized" possibly means having escaped from that environment.
I would not, myself, use "professionalized" to mean having submitted to such an environment. There are better words, if only I could think of them.
 Signature Peter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english)
Garrett Wollman - 27 Mar 2010 22:15 GMT >"Deprofessionalized" possibly means having escaped from that >environment. Plausible.
>I would not, myself, use "professionalized" to mean having submitted to >such an environment. There are better words, if only I could think of >them. "Professionalized" to me would carry the implication of a *regulated* or official profession, such as law, medicine, or civil engineering.
-GAWollman
 Signature Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 27 Mar 2010 22:43 GMT >"Professionalized" to me would carry the implication of a *regulated* >or official profession, such as law, medicine, or civil engineering. To me too.
 Signature Peter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english)
Frank ess - 27 Mar 2010 23:54 GMT >> "Professionalized" to me would carry the implication of a >> *regulated* or official profession, such as law, medicine, or >> civil engineering. > > To me too. The parallel within my ken is "institutionalized" and "deinstitutionalized", which referred to criminals and delinquent or abandoned children, but could apply equally well to the former IBM inmate; "deprofessionalized" might allow for the same effect but less negative connotation.
 Signature Frank ess
R H Draney - 28 Mar 2010 04:28 GMT Garrett Wollman filted:
>>"Deprofessionalized" possibly means having escaped from that >>environment. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >"Professionalized" to me would carry the implication of a *regulated* >or official profession, such as law, medicine, or civil engineering. And "deprofessionalized" might imply stripping the professional of his right to practice that profession, such as disbarring a lawyer....r
 Signature "Oy! A cat made of lead cannot fly." - Mark Brader declaims a basic scientific principle
Arcadian Rises - 28 Mar 2010 13:19 GMT > Garrett Wollman filted: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > And "deprofessionalized" might imply stripping the professional of his right to > practice that profession, such as disbarring a lawyer....r Or disbenching a judge. Or is it "benching"?
Eric Walker - 27 Mar 2010 23:34 GMT [...]
> The workers had to submit to that ideological straightjacket . . . I assume he refers to a straitjacket.
 Signature Cordially, Eric Walker, Owlcroft House http://owlcroft.com/english/
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 28 Mar 2010 00:16 GMT >[...] > >> The workers had to submit to that ideological straightjacket . . . > >I assume he refers to a straitjacket. Very probably. Because of the intellectual restrictions imposed on him he could be described as having been in dire straits.
 Signature Peter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english)
CDB - 28 Mar 2010 13:17 GMT >> What is a deprofessionalised intellectual? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Might it be a self-description, and translated fron Spanish? Almost certainly a transposition. That's why I went looking for "deprofesionalizar".
> He is quoted: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustavo_Esteva [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > "Deprofessionalized" possibly means having escaped from that > environment. I agree, although I approached it from another angle. I see nothing in the article (thanks)about breaches with academic or professional societies, and a great deal about being a man of the common people. "Deprofessionalised" in the sense that all professions are conspiracies against the laity.
> I would not, myself, use "professionalized" to mean having > submitted to such an environment. There are better words, if only I > could think of them. "Sellout"? Those were the days.
Don Phillipson - 27 Mar 2010 22:18 GMT > What is a deprofessionalised intellectual? > > 'Gustavo Esteva is a deprofessionalised intellectual based in Oaxaca, > Mexico. He is an advisor to the Zapatistas and founder of Universidad > de la Tierra in Oaxaca' "Professionalized" usually means that someone's normal work is in a recognized profession, which in turn usually means that practice is controlled, but by colleagues in the same profession rather than by non-specialists. For example architects may in some places be subject to professional requirements and prohibitions: so that a deprofessionalized architect would be someone designing buildings and perhaps supervising their construction, but without or in defiance of local professional norms. Conditions may vary with professions (e.g. law, medical practice, journalism, electrical engineering, accountancy.)
 Signature Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
Tom P - 29 Mar 2010 23:53 GMT > What is a deprofessionalised intellectual? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > VB > Do you have to wear a balaclava? It sounds like an example of a translator desperate for a word.
Here's what his website says: "Gustavo Esteva es un escritor independiente y un activista. Forma parte del segmento desprofesionalizado de la comunidad intelectual del Sur y ha jugado un papel importante en la fundación de diversas coaliciones y redes mexicanas, latinoamericanas e internacionales."
Google gets 2,000 hits, mostly Latin America. Looking at other contexts it seems to mean non-academic, non-professional, also unprofessional in a derogatory sense. Also used either an adjective or as a past tense particle - "deprofessionalised". Oops, that was the question.
Lewis - 30 Mar 2010 11:27 GMT >> What is a deprofessionalised intellectual? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> VB >> Do you have to wear a balaclava?
> It sounds like an example of a translator desperate for a word.
> Here's what his website says: > "Gustavo Esteva es un escritor independiente y un activista. Forma parte > del segmento desprofesionalizado de la comunidad intelectual del Sur y > ha jugado un papel importante en la fundación de diversas coaliciones y > redes mexicanas, latinoamericanas e internacionales." I think this says that he "is an independent writer and activist. He forms part of the unskilled segment of the intellectual community" which is not exactly what it would mean in English.
Basically it is saying that he does not have a job that requires either a license or a professional association to do. He is not a teacher, a pharmacist, a doctor, &c. He is also not a journalist in the sense of having Press credentials, but he maybe a journalist as an freelancer (independent writer could mean freelancer).
> Google gets 2,000 hits, mostly Latin America. Looking at other contexts > it seems to mean non-academic, non-professional, also unprofessional in > a derogatory sense. Also used either an adjective or as a past tense > particle - "deprofessionalised". Oops, that was the question. hmm. I don't think it's derogatory. I could find out though, if people really care.
 Signature Supposing there was justice for all, after all? For every unheeded beggar, every harsh word, every neglected duty, every slight... every choice... Because that was the point, wasn't it? You had to choose. You might be right, you might be wrong, but you had to choose, knowing that the rightness or wrongness might never be clear or even that you were deciding between two sorts of wrong, that there was no right anywhere. And always, always, you did it by yourself. You were the one there, on the edge, watching and listening. Never any tears, never any apology, never any regrets... You saved all that up in a way that could be used when needed. --Carpe Jugulum
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