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Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2010I'm not sure about this
"With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, ..." Before I say what I don't like, does anyone see a problem with this? David, AuE > "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, ..." > > Before I say what I don't like, does anyone see a problem with this? Companies don't have throats?  SignatureDavid >> "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, ..." >> >> Before I say what I don't like, does anyone see a problem with this? > > Companies don't have throats? Most of them have loggerheads. SignatureJames > > "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, ..." > > > Before I say what I don't like, does anyone see a problem with this? > > Companies don't have throats? Neither do governments. Now seriously, "companies" is plural and "government" is singular, so there is no paralellism required by "each other". >>> "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, >>> ..." [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Now seriously, "companies" is plural and "government" is singular, so > there is no paralellism required by "each other". Normally there wouldn't be a problem with three or more things all being at each other's throats. But here the mining companies are not at each other's throats, they are only at the government's throat. And the government is at their throat(s), jointly or severally. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >> > "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, ..." >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Now seriously, "companies" is plural and "government" is singular, so > there is no paralellism required by "each other". Interestingly, that comment can be read two ways that are contradictory to each other, innit? SignatureSkitt (SF Bay Area) http://come.to/skitt >> "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, ..." >> >> Before I say what I don't like, does anyone see a problem with this? > >Companies don't have throats? According to a recent court decision, they are full-throated persons in the US. The richer, the louder. SignatureJohn DavidW skrev: > "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, ..." > Before I say what I don't like, does anyone see a problem with this? I would prefer "throat", but maybe that is a Danish inclination? SignatureBertel, Denmark > DavidW skrev: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I would prefer "throat", but maybe that is a Danish inclination? I see "each other's throats" back to 1717 on Google Books: Cry Freedom up with popular noisie Votes: And get enough to cut each other's Throats. John Dryden, _The Duke of Guise_, 1717 "at each other's throats" shows up in 1785. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |If to "man" a phone implies handing 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |it over to a person of the male Palo Alto, CA 94304 |gender, then to "monitor" it |suggests handing it over to a kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |lizard. (650)857-7572 | Rohan Oberoi http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, > ..." > Before I say what I don't like, does anyone see a problem with this? I'm wondering whether the mining companies have a throat each or one collective industrial throat. If the first, the government would seem to be on a hiding to nothing. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >> "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, >> ..." [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > collective industrial throat. If the first, the government would seem to > be on a hiding to nothing. At present they appear to speaking with one voice, namely the voice of the Mad Monk. (Sorry, that will make no sense to non-Australians.) SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. > > "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, > > ..." [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > collective industrial throat. If the first, the government would seem to > be on a hiding to nothing. ... I'll bet that's David's objection--the mining companies aren't at each other's throats. "With the government and the mining industry at each other's throats" might be better. -- Jerry Friedman >>> "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, >>> ..." [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > other's throats. "With the government and the mining industry at each > other's throats" might be better. No, I didn't think of that. My problem is the mixing of singular and plural, i.e, 'mining companies' is plural but 'other' is singular, and 'government' is singular but 'throats' is plural. If the company were singular all would be well: "With the government and Rio Tinto at each other's throat, ..." John Holmes, now put it, God, in the physician's mind to help him to his grave immediately. Ye unconscious demi-devil, thou canker blossom. Ye aired: > for mail: my initials plus a u e > at tpg dot com dot au Your initials: jh Plus a u e: jhaue at tpg dot com dot au: @tpg.com.au HA! I get it! jhaue@tpg.com.au jhaue@tpg.com.au jhaue@tpg.com.au jhaue@tpg.com.au jhaue@tpg.com.au jhaue@tpg.com.au jhaue@tpg.com.au jhaue@tpg.com.au jhaue@tpg.com.au jhaue@tpg.com.au Do I win a prize? SignatureIt is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to he man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat; Theodore Roosevelt > "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, ..." > > Before I say what I don't like, does anyone see a problem with this? I initially read it with "government' as an adjective, sc. "With the government companies and the mining companies. ..." For that reason I might write "With [the] mining companies and the government at each other's throats", but I wouldn't call it necessary. We've discussed "each other's" before, I think -- it's not strictly logical, but it is the accepted possessive form of "each other". "At each other's throats" suggests a really bitter struggle. It might be hyperbolic, but lacking context I can't say it's wrong. Summary: I don't see an objection to the phrase, in isolation. Now I'll keep reading to see what I've missed. :-) SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... DavidW filted: >"With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, ..." > >Before I say what I don't like, does anyone see a problem with this? If "mining companies" functions as a single item in this context, the grammar is correct...if each mining company is a separate entity, it should be "at one another's throats".... >David, AuE I think that should be "AusE"; the way you have it looks like you're trying to set yourself up as a representative for the newsgroup....r Signature"Oy! A cat made of lead cannot fly." - Mark Brader declaims a basic scientific principle > DavidW filted: >> "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, ..." [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I think that should be "AusE"; the way you have it looks like you're trying to > set yourself up as a representative for the newsgroup....r Phew! For a moment, I thought it might be an honorary degree awarded by the Committee. Then I remembered there is no Committee. SignatureRob Bannister >> DavidW filted: >>> "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, ..." [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Phew! For a moment, I thought it might be an honorary degree awarded by >the Committee. Then I remembered there is no Committee. I see that the Committee's propaganda machine is working. Like many agencies, they don't want anyone to know of their existence. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England > DavidW filted: > > >David, AuE > > I think that should be "AusE"; the way you have it looks like you're trying to > set yourself up as a representative for the newsgroup....r Perhaps his English is golden. :-) SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Shikata ga nai... > DavidW filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I think that should be "AusE"; the way you have it looks like you're > trying to set yourself up as a representative for the newsgroup....r The mixing of case should be enough to rule that out. I thought other people used a two-letter code, and AU is ours. If I were to use AusE then British posters, for example, should use GbrE. >> DavidW filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >used a two-letter code, and AU is ours. If I were to use AusE then British >posters, for example, should use GbrE. Ah, but... GbrE would be Gibraltar English. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>> DavidW filted: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> > Ah, but... GbrE would be Gibraltar English. I can't tell if you're serious or not. There's no GBR here for Gibraltar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_codes:_G#.C2.A0Gibraltar But it is the UK's code for a number of organizations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_codes:_U-Z#United_Kingdom >>> The mixing of case should be enough to rule that out. I thought >>> other people used a two-letter code, and AU is ours. If I were to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > But it is the UK's code for a number of organizations: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_codes:_U-Z#United_Kingdom Incidentally, I remember Sir Humphrey Appleby giving your country's full title as "Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", which, contrary to the country codes, implies that Great Britain and the United Kingdom are not interchangeable. >>>> The mixing of case should be enough to rule that out. I thought >>>> other people used a two-letter code, and AU is ours. If I were to [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >contrary to the country codes, implies that Great Britain and the United Kingdom >are not interchangeable. Context rules. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> DavidW filted: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >I can't tell if you're serious or not. There's no GBR here for Gibraltar: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_codes:_G#.C2.A0Gibraltar True. However, if in the context of discussing varieties of English we needed to distinguish that spoken in Gibraltar from others then GbrE would be a suitable, easily remembered, abbreviation invented for the purpose (I suggest). >But it is the UK's code for a number of organizations: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_codes:_U-Z#United_Kingdom SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>> DavidW filted: >>>> "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> > Ah, but... GbrE would be Gibraltar English. And AuE is Austrian English. SignatureRob Bannister >>>> DavidW filted: >>>>> "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >And AuE is Austrian English. Why not "OzE" for Australian English and "KiwE" for New Zealand English? SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >> And AuE is Austrian English. > > Why not "OzE" for Australian English and "KiwE" for New Zealand > English? I wouldn't mind, but I think we have some regulars who aren't in Kansas any more. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >>>> DavidW filted: >>>>> "With the government and mining companies at each other's throats, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> > And AuE is Austrian English. Depends on the agency, but ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 has AU for Australia. I can only find AU for Austria in the obsolete NATO list and some US organizations. Robert Bannister filted: >>>> DavidW filted: >>>>> David, AuE >>>> I think that should be "AusE"; the way you have it looks like you're >>>> trying to set yourself up as a representative for the newsgroup....r >>>The mixing of case should be enough to rule that out. I thought other people >>> used a two-letter code, and AU is ours. If I were to use AusE then British [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >And AuE is Austrian English. I'm sure I've seen Steve Hayes's variant abbreviated as SafE...strict adherence to ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 would demand ZaE, and Chuck Riggs might be said to use IeE instead of the IrE (properly Iranian English?) that I think I've seen.... For that matter, most of my own countrymen seem to be claiming Armenian ties....r Signature"Oy! A cat made of lead cannot fly." - Mark Brader declaims a basic scientific principle |
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