 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsEnglish UsageBritish EnglishESL Teaching Learnglish.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2011"The" cannot precede a noncount noun?
Hi all, From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count noun. Is it correct? Thank you. > Hi all, > > From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count > noun. Is it correct? > > Thank you. "Never" is such a long time ... That assertion is incorrect -- you have to do the homework on this all by yourself and not pay attention to the fog that you might have to fight through. Never mind the ignorance of those who advise you differently.  SignatureSkitt (SF Bay Area) http://come.to/skitt > From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count > noun. Is it correct? No. SignatureAatu Koskensilta (aatu.koskensilta@uta.fi) "Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen." - Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus > > From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count > > noun. Is it correct? > > No. For instance "Please pass the bread." -- Jerry Friedman has grave doubts about that grammar book. > > > From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count > > > noun. Is it correct? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > -- > Jerry Friedman has grave doubts about that grammar book. Compare with; Bread is made from flour. He went out to buy bread. Some languages would use a definite article in these contexts, so it's an important point to grasp, but "never" is wrong. Mark >> On Nov 27, 11:27 am, Aatu Koskensilta <aatu.koskensi...@uta.fi> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Some languages would use a definite article in these contexts, so > it's an important point to grasp, but "never" is wrong. My suspicion is that the author of the book had that kind of advice in mind, but expressed it *very* badly. Uncountable nouns (and plural countable nouns) do take "the" when they are definite in the sense of mentioning something that is already present to the listener's mind, or being modified by a limiting phrase, etc.: He forgot to buy the bread (that I had asked him to buy). Where English differs from German, French, Spanish, etc. is that such nouns do not count as definite when used to make more or less vague general statements about the part of the universe they describe: Bread is made of flour. Human beings are unreliable. This difference often trips up translators. I have read, e.g., that Sartre's _Les Mots_ once appeared in translation with the title "The Words"; that would suggest that Sartre had some particular words in mind. Signature--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: Wire your fetishisms in parallel. :|| >>>> From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count >>>> noun. Is it correct? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Bread is made from flour. > He went out to buy bread. But that has nothing to do with "bread" being a non-count noun: Cakes are made from flour. He went out to buy cakes. > > On Nov 27, 6:42 pm, Jerry Friedman<jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Nov 27, 11:27 am, Aatu Koskensilta<aatu.koskensi...@uta.fi> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Cakes are made from flour. > He went out to buy cakes. Yes it does; Bread is made from flour (non-count: correct) Car is made from metal (count: wrong) Or in your plural versions; Breads are made from flour (non-count: wrong) Cars are made from metal (count: correct) Mark >>>>>> From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes anon-count >>>>>> noun. Is it correct? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Breads are made from flour (non-count: wrong) > Cars are made from metal (count: correct) How about "Breads of all kinds are made from flour" (non-count: correct)? What -- grammatically -- is the difference? Perce > >>>>>> From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes anon-count > >>>>>> noun. Is it correct? [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > What -- grammatically -- is the difference? Well, isn't the point that some nouns can be considered either mass or count depending on context? "Bread" is not an ideal example of a non- count in that respect, but it wasn't my choice. In your example "breads" stands for "kinds of bread", which is clearly count. Mark >From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count >noun. Is it correct? No. Pass the milk. Pour (out) the water. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk Steve Hayes filted: >>From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count >>noun. Is it correct? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Pass the milk. >Pour (out) the water. The silence here is deafening....r SignatureMe? Sarcastic? Yeah, right. > Hi all, > From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count > noun. Is it correct? What's a "non-count noun", if you don't mind me asking? > Thank you. SignatureAlan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). >> Hi all, > >> From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count >> noun. Is it correct? > > What's a "non-count noun", if you don't mind me asking? You may know it as a mass noun.. SignatureRay UK > Hi all, > > From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count > noun. Is it correct? No. "Unload the coffee from the ship". "Mix the coconut into the batter." > Hi all, > > From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count > noun. Is it correct? That's nonsense. "Add the sugar to the mixture" is perfectly good English, and is a typical part of a recipe. What does your book actually say, word for word? And which book is it? If it's a decent book, it shouldn't have a wrong "rule" like the one you cite. Signature"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning." --Mark Twain Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com > > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > --Mark Twain > Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com Thank you for your answers. The book I mentioned is quite popular http://www.amazon.com/Barrons-How-Prepare-Toefl-Test/dp/0812084209 In the "Non-count nouns" section, I see this: " Avoid using "the" before a noncount noun. Avoid using a plural verb with a noncount noun" Best, > > > From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count > > > noun. Is it correct? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > before a noncount noun. Avoid using a plural verb with a noncount > noun" Thanks for the context. "Avoid doing X" is quite different from "never do X." But even so, I don't know what the book is on about. In English, especially AmE, uncountable or mass nouns do take singular verbs. So "avoid giving them plural verbs" should really be a stronger prohibition. But (as several have posted) they *do* quite often take the definite article. So "avoid giving them the definite article" is just wrong, as stated. Is there any sort of context established in the preceding paragraph, so that the sentence really means "Avoid using 'the' before a non- count noun" **in this set of circumstances**? Or does the gook give any examples of incorrect sentences using "the" with a non-count noun? Signature"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning." --Mark Twain Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com > Thank you for your answers. The book I mentioned is quite popular > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > before a noncount noun. Avoid using a plural verb with a noncount > noun" As general advice about English usage this is just silly, at least on the usual meaning of "noncount noun". How does the text explain or define non-count noun? SignatureAatu Koskensilta (aatu.koskensilta@uta.fi) "Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen." - Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus > As general advice about English usage this is just silly, at least on >the usual meaning of "noncount noun". How does the text explain or >define non-count noun? How widespread is the count/mass distinction, anyway? Do even all Germanic languages have it? (Can you define it in a way that even makes sense across languages?) -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft wollman@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993 > Hi all, > > From my grammar book, I learn that "the" never precedes a non-count > noun. Is it correct? > > Thank you. The rubbish you get in some so-called grammar books is incredible. DC -- |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2012 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.