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definite article

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Ching - 28 Apr 2005 21:19 GMT
Is the definite article neccessary before winter in the sentence
below?
I learned that the definite article was optional in you meant winter
in general but I was told by a native-speaker friend that it had to
included. Any second opinions?

In winter, you can go skating and skiing.

Thanks.
Einde O'Callaghan - 28 Apr 2005 21:39 GMT
> Is the definite article neccessary before winter in the sentence
> below?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> In winter, you can go skating and skiing.

You are correct. Your native-speaker friend is probably basing his
assessment on his own particular regional variety of English.

Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
credoquaabsurdum - 29 Apr 2005 09:03 GMT
In general, when speaking of the seasons, educated native speakers
avoid the definite article. The only time you absolutely must use a
determiner is when you mean a specific winter.

the winter of '92, the Long Winter, this winter, next winter, my
favorite winter, et hoc genus omne

Articles in speech, headlines and in any shorthand note form are often
omitted on a wildly inconsistent basis. Since such language input
constitutes a large amount of the "raw" language material non-native
speakers get in English, they are a difficult topic to master on your
own, without the help of a good grammar practice book.

Best of luck, Ching.
Einde O'Callaghan - 29 Apr 2005 19:57 GMT
> In general, when speaking of the seasons, educated native speakers
> avoid the definite article.

Speaking as an "educated" native speaker (whatever that is supposed to
mean) and teacher of English as a foreign language, I find this "rule"
absurd; and it has little in common with actual usage. I can think of
several situations when I would use the definite article without any
hesitation. I even think there may be a subtle difference between the
meaning of the phrase "in winter" and "in the winter".

Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

> The only time you absolutely must use a
> determiner is when you mean a specific winter.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Best of luck, Ching.
credoquaabsurdum - 29 Apr 2005 22:51 GMT
"Educated native speaker" means, in the way that I use it, someone who
has finished secondary school. The term is popular here in Greece
because Cambridge ESOL (formerly UCLES EFL) uses it to describe an
A-level pass in the CPE examination. I did not intend to use it in a
confusing manner.

Einde, I respect you and what you have done in this group to help
people you don't know and I have no wish to butt heads. Your advice is
consistently intelligent and honestly helpful.
 
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