...teaching the French English ?
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Language EXCHANGE - 02 Dec 2005 02:44 GMT [ Bilingual msg *FR/ENG* Msg bilingue ]
Teaching the French English ... and vice versa . . . . . . Bonjour <^ojo^> Hello -- Parlons ! Let's talk !
[ FRENCH...find the English version below ]
FAITES-VOUS de nouveaux amis partout dans le monde, en apprenant leur langue, et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre...
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[ ENGLISH ]
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Plus d'infos / More info :
Pls go to / Svp allez sur :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FrenchEnglishTutor/
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Aussi,
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Paul Burke - 02 Dec 2005 09:04 GMT > et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre... I'd love to learn better French, but I can never find the accents on the keyboard.
Seán O'Leathlóbhair - 02 Dec 2005 10:23 GMT > > et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre... > > I'd love to learn better French, but I can never find the accents on the > keyboard. I would be happy with one accent provided that it was one that some native may use. I had not thought of looking for it on my keyboard. I had assumed that I would need to go and live in France.
-- Seán O'Leathlóbhair
John Dean - 02 Dec 2005 11:43 GMT >>> et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre... >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > native may use. I had not thought of looking for it on my keyboard. > I had assumed that I would need to go and live in France. No, you can buy Aw-hee haw-ho keyboards in most good retailers.
 Signature John Dean Oxford
Dave Fawthrop - 02 Dec 2005 12:26 GMT | > > et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre... | > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | native may use. I had not thought of looking for it on my keyboard. I | had assumed that I would need to go and live in France. Buy your PCs in France, then you will get the correct keyboard. Only getting a French keyboard may work, but I have not tried it.
 Signature Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> "Intelligent Design?" my knees say *not*. "Intelligent Design?" my back says *not*. More like "Incompetent design". Sig (C) Copyright Public Domain
Jeffrey Turner - 02 Dec 2005 15:23 GMT > | > > et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre... > | > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Buy your PCs in France, then you will get the correct keyboard. > Only getting a French keyboard may work, but I have not tried it. I think you'd have to set the country or language in order to get a French keyboard to work correctly. It's in the Control Panel in Windoze.
--Jeff
 Signature The spirit of democracy cannot be imposed from without. It has to come from within. --Mohandas K. Gandhi
Chris Waigl - 02 Dec 2005 17:12 GMT > | > > et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre... > | > > | > I'd love to learn better French, but I can never find the accents > | > on the keyboard. The one on "vôtre" was entirely unneccessary. One might say erroneous.
> | I would be happy with one accent provided that it was one that some > | native may use. I had not thought of looking for it on my > | keyboard. I had assumed that I would need to go and live in France. > > Buy your PCs in France, then you will get the correct keyboard. > Only getting a French keyboard may work, but I have not tried it. Hum, just set your keyboard to US-International or UK-International and see what happens if you use ALT-[key] or ALT-SHIFT-[key]. Doesn't that work in Windows?
... well it seems it does, and furthermore it's easy: <http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/keyboards/winkey.html> <http://www.starr.net/is/type/intlchart.html>
No need to use a foreign keyboard just because you want to use foreign characters.
Chris Waigl
Isabelle Cecchini - 02 Dec 2005 17:54 GMT Chris Waigl a écrit :
>>>>> et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre... >>>> >>>> I'd love to learn better French, but I can never find the accents >>>> on the keyboard. > > The one on "vôtre" was entirely unneccessary. One might say erroneous. It would have been, if indeed it had been on "votre". As it was actually on "la vôtre", it was entirely necessary, nay, obligatory, and one might even say: pretty.
 Signature Isabelle Cecchini
Bob Cunningham - 03 Dec 2005 00:57 GMT > Chris Waigl a écrit :
> >>>>> et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre...
> >>>> I'd love to learn better French, but I can never > >>>> find the accents on the keyboard. The accented symbols can be copied and pasted from the Windows character map. In Windows XP it's at C:/windows/system32/charmap.exe . (Highlight a symbol, "select" it, then "copy" it.)
> > The one on "vôtre" was entirely unneccessary. One might > > say erroneous.
> It would have been, if indeed it had been on "votre". As > it was actually on "la vôtre", it was entirely necessary, > nay, obligatory, and one might even say: pretty. I think I've read somewhere that the circumflex accent (^) in some language indicated that a letter had been dropped from an earlier version of the word. The assertion was that the circumflex, with it's sad-mouthed appearance, "weeps over the loss of the departed <whatever>". Maybe it was Lancelot Hogben who said it. It sounds like something he would say.
Is there something to that recollection, or is my memory deceiving me again?
In the case of "votre", I think of Spanish "vuestro" and Italian "vostro" and wonder if "(la) vôtre" might have come from an Old French word that had an "s" in it, over the loss of which the circumflex now weeps. (I see now the French plural of possessive adjective "votre" is "vos".)
Note that this would be different from using the apostrophe to show one or more omitted letters in a word that is *contemporaneous* with the contraction.
If my recollection is right, and if English had a similar convention, we might write "wôn't" to mourn the loss of the two "l"s in "woll not", or "shân't" for the missing "l"s. "Woll" no longer exists in English except vestigially in "won't". (I suppose it could have other vestiges, like maybe "would".)
Bob Cunningham - 03 Dec 2005 01:01 GMT On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 00:57:08 GMT, Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> messed up on the subject line: It should have been "the weeping circumflex".
Bob Cunningham - 03 Dec 2005 01:03 GMT [...]
> The assertion was that the circumflex, with [*]it's[*] > sad-mouthed appearance, "weeps [*] "its"
Giles Todd - 03 Dec 2005 04:40 GMT > The accented symbols can be copied and pasted from the > Windows character map. In Windows XP it's at > C:/windows/system32/charmap.exe . (Highlight a symbol, > "select" it, then "copy" it.) Some might find this utility:
http://allchars.zwolnet.com/
a little more convenient for regular use.
Giles
Bob Cunningham - 03 Dec 2005 11:49 GMT
> > The accented symbols can be copied and pasted from the > > Windows character map. In Windows XP it's at > > C:/windows/system32/charmap.exe . (Highlight a symbol, > > "select" it, then "copy" it.)
> Some might find this utility:
> http://allchars.zwolnet.com/
> a little more convenient for regular use. Thank you. That's nice to know about.
I have an icon for charmap.exe on my Quick Launch toolbar, so it's quite convenient to use.
Raymond S. Wise - 03 Dec 2005 06:30 GMT > > Chris Waigl a écrit : > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > "won't". (I suppose it could have other vestiges, like > maybe "would".) As it happens, the circumflex *did* have a limited such use in English, if the following excerpt from the Wikipedia article on the circumflex is to be believed:
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumflex
[quote]
In Britain in the eighteenth century, which was before the cheap penny post and a era in which paper was taxed, the circumflex was used in postal letters to save room in an analogy with the French use. Specifically, the letters "ugh" were replaced when they were silent in the most common words, e.g., "thô" for "though", "thorô" for "thorough", and "brôt" for "brought" - similar to the way in which people today abbreviate words in text messages. This could have led to spelling simplification, but did not.
[end quote]
-- Raymond S. Wise Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Tony Mountifield - 03 Dec 2005 09:45 GMT > I think I've read somewhere that the circumflex accent (^) > in some language indicated that a letter had been dropped [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > of which the circumflex now weeps. (I see now the French > plural of possessive adjective "votre" is "vos".) Yes, I also learnt that a circumflex denotes an etymologically ancestral 's'. Hadn't heard the weeping bit though.
Compare French "fenêtre" with German "Fenster" and Latin "fenestra"; "rôta" with "roster". I'm sure there are many others. I don't know where "tête" (French for "head") comes from.
Cheers Tony
 Signature Tony Mountifield Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org
Matti Lamprhey - 03 Dec 2005 12:28 GMT "Tony Mountifield" <tony@softins.clara.co.uk> wrote...
> > I think I've read somewhere that the circumflex accent (^) > > in some language indicated that a letter had been dropped [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Yes, I also learnt that a circumflex denotes an etymologically > ancestral 's'. Hadn't heard the weeping bit though. My French mistress taught me that it was "the gravestone of a departed 's'".
Matti
Raymond S. Wise - 03 Dec 2005 16:45 GMT > "Tony Mountifield" <tony@softins.clara.co.uk> wrote... > > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > My French mistress taught me that it was "the gravestone of a departed > 's'". While that covers most cases of the use of the circumflex in French, the metaphor mentioned by Bob covers other missing letters as well, including the "a" or "e" missing in "âge"--formerly, "eage" or "aage"--and the "ao" missing in "soûl" ( = "drunk" ), formerly "saoul"--the latter continues to be a standard variant alongside the shorter version.
But even the metaphor mentioned by Bob doesn't cover other uses of the circumflex in French. The French version of Wikipedia has a long article about the circumflex at
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accent_circonflexe_en_fran%C3%A7ais
Among uses it mentions about which I was previously unaware is that of making a word look more prestigious, which is the case with "trône" ( = "throne" ), prône ( = "sermon" ) and "suprême." The circumflex also occurs in French simply as a result of one word influencing the form of another, which is the case of "traître" ( = "traitor" ), influenced by "maître" ( = "master" ).
-- Raymond S. Wise Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Pat Durkin - 03 Dec 2005 15:04 GMT >> I think I've read somewhere that the circumflex accent (^) >> in some language indicated that a letter had been dropped [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > where > "tête" (French for "head") comes from. Of course, "testa" is from the Italian (and closer to Latin?) for head. ("Mala testa, I have been told, means "headache".)
John Ramsay - 04 Dec 2005 06:44 GMT > >> I think I've read somewhere that the circumflex accent (^) > >> in some language indicated that a letter had been dropped [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Of course, "testa" is from the Italian (and closer to Latin?) for head. > ("Mala testa, I have been told, means "headache".) caput is Latin for head. testa is a cooking pot and a slang expression for head, probably used by Roman soldiers.
Modern Spanish uses testa for head and cabeza, presumably derived from caput.
the Omrud - 03 Dec 2005 09:57 GMT Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> spake thusly:
> I think I've read somewhere that the circumflex accent (^) > in some language indicated that a letter had been dropped [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > of which the circumflex now weeps. (I see now the French > plural of possessive adjective "votre" is "vos".) You are correct - you can still find examples of "la vostre" on French web sites, where the language is old-fashioned.
There is quite a list of such words in French where the UK version retains the missing letter, usually an s:
castle château roster rôta paste pâté forest forêt
and so on.
 Signature David ===== replace usenet with the
Salvatore Volatile - 03 Dec 2005 13:48 GMT ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.]
> There is quite a list of such words in French where the UK version > retains the missing letter, usually an s: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > paste pt > forest fort The "UK version"?
Chris Waigl - 03 Dec 2005 01:40 GMT > Chris Waigl a écrit : > > The one on "vôtre" was entirely unneccessary. One might say [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > actually on "la vôtre", it was entirely necessary, nay, obligatory, > and one might even say: pretty. You say I'm wrong, 'ti Bob says I'm wrong and TLFi says I'm wrong, so ... I'm wrong. Thanks. I'm suprised, though, and blame everything on being friends with a particularly non-prescriptive (French) linguist(ics student). My impression was that the circumflex accent on "vôtre" was now commonly being dropped, even when the word was used as a pronoun in the narrow sense, i.e. replacing a noun -- as opposed to as a determiner ("possessive adjective"), when it's "votre".
Etymologically, keeping one and dropping the other doesn't make a lot of sense: both come from the same latin root /vost-r/. In French, the circumflex often indicates a dropped post-vocalic /s/, see for example _hôtel_ (cf. "hostel").
As an indicator of pronunciation, it does make a little more sense. The ô indicates a more fronted, closed sound, [o], in _vôtre_, which occurs in a stressed position, whereas _votre_, unstressed, has [O].
As for pretty, I'm quite prepared to admire the foibles of French, though maybe not today: I spent entirely too much time with the irregularities of past participle agreement. (They said it was *logical*. All right, so "les générations se sont succédé" doesn't undergo agreement, but don't tell me that's logical.)
Chris Waigl
 Signature blog: http://serendipity.lascribe.net/ eggcorns: http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/
mUs1Ka - 02 Dec 2005 19:31 GMT >>>>> et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre... >>>> >>>> I'd love to learn better French, but I can never find the accents >>>> on the keyboard. > > The one on "vôtre" was entirely unneccessary. One might say erroneous. As is your extra 'c'.
 Signature Ray. UK.
jwlawler@yahoo.com - 02 Dec 2005 18:26 GMT > > > et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre... > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Seán O'Leathlóbhair Why all this sensible advice? I thought that Paul's comment was a joke, certainly mine was (a deliberate misunderstanding of accent).
-- Seán O'Leathlóbhair
Cool Guy - 02 Dec 2005 10:24 GMT > I'd love to learn better French, but I can never find the accents on the > keyboard. See <http://www.starr.net/is/type/altnum.htm>.
Wooframus J. Burgher - 27 Jan 2006 13:39 GMT >> et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre... > > I'd love to learn better French, but I can never find the accents on > the keyboard. If you are using a standard ASCII keyboard, then you can "find the accents" in the following manner:
For é you would hold down the [Alt] key and then press 0233 on the numeric keypad. Likewise,
[Alt] + 0192 = À [Alt] + 0194 = Â [Alt] + 0199 = Ç [Alt] + 0200 = È [Alt] + 0201 = É [Alt] + 0202 = Ê [Alt] + 0206 = Î [Alt] + 0207 = Ï
[Alt] + 0224 = à [Alt] + 0225 = á [Alt] + 0226 = â
[Alt] + 0231 = ç
[Alt] + 0232 = è [Alt] + 0233 = é [Alt] + 0234 = ê [Alt] + 0235 = ë [Alt] + 0238 = î [Alt] + 0239 = ï
If you are using the Windows™ Operating System, the extended ascii character set can also be accessed through the character map icon. (KEYCAPS for MAC users.)
I hope this helped.
atb, Woofy
Stewart Gordon - 27 Jan 2006 14:13 GMT >>> et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre... >> >> I'd love to learn better French, but I can never find the accents on >> the keyboard. > If you are using a standard ASCII keyboard, then you can "find the > accents" in the following manner: There's no such thing as a "standard ASCII keyboard". The method you give below is part of the Windows operating system, and works regardless of what keyboard you use it with (as long as it's a PC-compatible one). Other operating systems have their own ways of typing special characters.
> For é you would hold down the [Alt] key and then press 0233 on the > numeric keypad. Likewise, > > [Alt] + 0192 = À > [Alt] + 0194 = Â <snip>
> If you are using the Windows™ Operating System, the extended ascii > character set can also be accessed through the character map icon. > (KEYCAPS for MAC users.) Which versions of Mac OS does it come with? It doesn't seem to be on mine (X.3.9).
But the method for typing accented characters on the Mac is quite simple. To use your lowercase examples:
[Option] + `, a = à [Option] + e, a = á [Option] + i, a = â
[Option] + c = ç
[Option] + `, e = è [Option] + e, e = é [Option] + i, e = ê [Option] + u, e = ë [Option] + i, i = î [Option] + u, i = ï
No prizes for guessing how you type the uppercase versions!
Stewart.
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My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit.
Robert Bannister - 28 Jan 2006 00:59 GMT >> If you are using the Windows™ Operating System, the extended ascii >> character set can also be accessed through the character map icon. >> (KEYCAPS for MAC users.) > > Which versions of Mac OS does it come with? It doesn't seem to be on > mine (X.3.9). Definitely most systems before OS X. Now you have to enable Keyboard Viewer in International, although there is another way using Font Book, which doesn't work so well for me. Keycaps was much simpler to access.
 Signature Rob Bannister
Odysseus - 28 Jan 2006 13:17 GMT <snip>
> > If you are using the Windows Operating System, the extended ascii > > character set can also be accessed through the character map icon. > > (KEYCAPS for MAC users.) > > Which versions of Mac OS does it come with? It doesn't seem to be on > mine (X.3.9). KeyCaps is in Mac OS 9.x and earlier. An OS X equivalent is the "Glyphs" palette, accessed from a menu in many applications. A handy third-party shareware utility called PopChar is available for older and newer systems both. For the more common diacritics, such as those used in French, the 'traditional' Macintosh key-sequences are easy enough to remember that little to no additional aid is necessary, once one's had a little practice.
 Signature Odysseus
Franssoa - 27 Jan 2006 14:37 GMT Wooframus J. Burgher a écrit :
>>> et en les aidant à apprendre la vôtre... >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If you are using a standard ASCII keyboard, then you can "find the > accents" in the following manner: <snip>
Hello, and excuse my english...
I my Swiss french keyboard I've the accents, but I can make 'accented' letters too pressing in first the accent alone and then the letter :
key ^ + key e = ê key ` + key a = à kes ´ + key A = Á ...
François
Jukka Aho - 31 Jan 2006 08:45 GMT >> I'd love to learn better French, but I can never find the accents >> on the keyboard.
> [Alt] + 0192 = À > [Alt] + 0194 = Â [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > character set can also be accessed through the character map icon. > (KEYCAPS for MAC users.) Both above-described methods work for entering accented characters, but are awkward and cumbersome if you need to produce more than just short snippets of text.
Fortunately, there is a much easier way: Simply change your keyboard layout for something that allows you to produce the accented characters directly. (No, not the physical layout, but the software-based interpretation of it.) Windows comes with three "extended" keyboard layout definitions for the English-speakers:
United States International United Kingdom Extended Canadian Multilingual Standard
All these have extra characters mapped behind the right Alt button ("AltGr"), and they also have so-called "dead keys" which allow producing accented characters as combinations, in a rather logical way.
You can view all the above-mentioned layouts here (unfortunately, the page only works with Internet Explorer:) <http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/keyboards.mspx>.
See the following pages for more information about usage:
<http://www.starr.net/is/type/intlchart.html> <http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;306560&sd=tech> <http://www.csus.edu/fl/keyboard.html> <http://www.csbsju.edu/mcl/resource/Use%20Int%20Keyboard.pdf>The keyboard layout can be changed in the Control Panel, but the exactlocation of the setting depends on the Windows version you're using.- On pre-XP Windows versions, the keyboard layout can be changed inControl Panel's "Keyboard" applet.- On Windows XP and Windows 2003, the same option has been moved in the"Regional and Language Options" applet. (Select the "Language" tab andpress the "Details..." button.) You may have to switch to "Classic view"in Control panel to see the "Regional and Language Options" applet.Another way to launch it is typing "control international" on thecommand line.It is also possible to define custom keyboard layouts, with just thecharacters you need, in whichever buttons you like. This can beaccomplished by using Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator: <http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/msklc.mspx>(The technically-minded might also want to take a look at<http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/handson/dev/inputinwin.mspx>,which gives further details on how keyboard layouts work in Windows,and what are some of the common design principles that should beadhered to when creating one on your own.)--znark
Robert Bannister - 31 Jan 2006 23:28 GMT >>> I'd love to learn better French, but I can never find the accents >>> on the keyboard. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > interpretation of it.) Windows comes with three "extended" keyboard > layout definitions for the English-speakers: There are big problems with this method for us touch typists. I remember the last time I had to copy-type reams of French using an AZERTY keyboard: full of typing errors. On the other hand, I can touch type using either the Windows system (Alt+ the character that looks most like the symbol you want) or Mac (Cmd + the most letter most likely to use this symbol). In other words, I can quickly learn new typing combinations, but not a completely new set-up. Even for typing Russian, I prefer QWERTY layouts, which, fortunately, are available.
Pity the page you give only uses IE, which I have completely disabled. This is one aspect of Microsoft that I really hate.
 Signature Rob Bannister
Jukka Aho - 01 Feb 2006 00:14 GMT >> Fortunately, there is a much easier way: Simply change your keyboard >> layout for something that allows you to produce the accented >> characters directly. (No, not the physical layout, but the >> software-based interpretation of it.) Windows comes with three >> "extended" keyboard layout definitions for the English-speakers:
> There are big problems with this method for us touch typists. I > remember the last time I had to copy-type reams of French using an > AZERTY keyboard: full of typing errors. I wasn't suggesting using the French keyboard layout. What I suggested was using the "US International", "UK Extended" or "Canadian Multilingual" keyboard layouts. These have all the normal letters in their normal places (for people who are accustomed to the standard US, UK, or Canadian layouts, that is) - but they just add more functionality behind the right Alt key. (All the above-mentioned extended keyboard layouts come with Windows; there's no need to download anything separately.)
Another suggestion I gave in my original message was about creating a custom keyboard layout and making it work just the way you like it. A link was provided to a freely downloadable tool called "Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator", which allows doing exactly this in Windows 2000 or Windows XP environments.
For example, you can define a keyboard layout which is based on the exact layout you're using right now, but in which - for instance - the combination [Right Alt] + [C] produces "ç". There's plenty of room on the keyboard for all kinds of additions.
If [Right Alt] + [letter] and [Right Alt] + [Shift] + [letter] combinations aren't enough for you, you can turn [Caps Lock] into another meta key and add even more foreign characters, special punctuation, symbols, etc. behind that.
You can also define custom dead keys [1] and dead key combinations.
_____
[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_key>
 Signature znark
Robert Bannister - 01 Feb 2006 23:04 GMT > For example, you can define a keyboard layout which is based on the > exact layout you're using right now, but in which - for instance - the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > another meta key and add even more foreign characters, special > punctuation, symbols, etc. behind that. It's at least five years since I used Windows, so I might be confusing Word and the OS, but I thought you could already do that simply by going to the chart that has all the symbols and changing the short-cut, which appears at the bottom when you click on the letter you want.
 Signature Rob Bannister
Jukka Aho - 01 Feb 2006 23:25 GMT >> For example, you can define a keyboard layout which is based on the >> exact layout you're using right now, but in which - for instance - [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> another meta key and add even more foreign characters, special >> punctuation, symbols, etc. behind that.
> It's at least five years since I used Windows, so I might be confusing > Word and the OS, but I thought you could already do that simply by > going to the chart that has all the symbols and changing the > short-cut, which appears at the bottom when you click on the letter > you want. You're confusing Word and the OS. Word has a built-in feature that allows defining keyboard shortcuts for symbols and special characters, just like you describe above, but if you want these kind of things to work system-wide you will need to create a proper keyboard layout - either with the free Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator or with some 3rd party tool.
You appear to be using Macintosh. The "U.S. International" keyboard layout is also available for the Mac (even though the description on the download page seems to hint that it is not necessarily needed for producing accented characters - the Mac apparently comes with a more capable US keyboard layout to begin with):
<http://www.brockerhoff.net/usi/>
 Signature znark
Robert Bannister - 02 Feb 2006 23:09 GMT > You appear to be using Macintosh. The "U.S. International" keyboard > layout is also available for the Mac (even though the description on the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > <http://www.brockerhoff.net/usi/> Yes, interesting, but I don't think I need it. When I did use Windows at work, I mainly used Word, so it was very easy to email projects back and forth between work and home, and I didn't find the different keyboard combinations a problem at all as I was mainly typing French and German, so I only needed a limited number of diacritics. Now I'm retired, I have even less need of such things.
 Signature Rob Bannister
Stephen Calder - 02 Feb 2006 04:47 GMT >> For example, you can define a keyboard layout which is based on the >> exact layout you're using right now, but in which - for instance - the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > to the chart that has all the symbols and changing the short-cut, which > appears at the bottom when you click on the letter you want. That's in Word.
I also discovered that if you are in another text editor and wish to access the alt characters, you need to use the number pad, not the numbers at the top of the keyboard.
 Signature Stephen Lennox Head, Australia
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