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Discussion Groups / ESL Teaching / January 2006Use Translation Software On Book Publishing
Commercial translation software technologies are getting better and better. Today the software translation errors are very few that a local professional editor of any country can effortlessly correct them in a short time. Therefore it's now viable for print publishers and sellers around the world to translate their books, magazines to all languages of the world thereby expanding their market, as in more profits. The Philippines is a country composed of many nations of different languages that were forced to function as if they are one single nation by the western colonizers. Business transactions, and college and professional technical books sold in the Philippines today are written in english, but english is not the colloquial or first language in the Philippines. So most Filipinos still find it difficult to read or comprehend complex technical books sold in the Philippines. Unlike the Americans or Japanese who have the learning advantage of their complex technical books written in their first language, hence their citizens have less difficulty reading or comprehending complex technical knowledge in their books. Imagine if all complex technical books sold in the US are written in French and because most Americans are not fluent or don't know French then most Americans will end up dumb and the US will end up as a 3rd world country. But Filipinos who want to work in call centers and work overseas or jobs that requires english proficiency are able to learn english and other foreign languages fast because they chose to learn it or because of constant usage of the foreign language. Sometimes there are english words that have no native word equivalent. Like in Malaysia, they spell the word "science" to its native Malaysian pronunciation "sains." So it's best to spell foreign words in the native pronunciation if it doesn't have a native word equivalent like they do in Malaysia. Like "Pythagorean Theorem" can be spelled in the Filipino native pronunciation "Paytagoryan Tiyorem" instead. Or the word "perpendicular" can be spelled in the native Filipino pronunciation "perpendikyular." Like in Germany they spell the city of Tokyo "tokio" but in the US they spell Tokyo "tokyo." Language translation software technologies will be very useful in the immediate future in educating children of countries whose native or first languages are not yet developed to convey or express complex math and science concepts, or children who will have to first learn languages like English or Japanese (or languages that are already developed to express or convey complex math and science concepts) before they can learn and express complex math and science concepts. sci.lang.translation Commercial translation software technologies are getting better and better. Today the software translation errors are very few that a local professional editor of any country can effortlessly correct them in a short time. Therefore it's now viable for print publishers and sellers around the world to translate their books, magazines to all languages of the world thereby expanding their market, as in more profits. The Philippines is a country composed of many nations of different languages that were forced to function as if they are one single nation by the western colonizers. Business transactions, and college and professional technical books sold in the Philippines today are written in english, but english is not the colloquial or first language in the Philippines. So most Filipinos still find it difficult to read or comprehend complex technical books sold in the Philippines. Unlike the Americans or Japanese who have the learning advantage of their complex technical books written in their first language, hence their citizens have less difficulty reading or comprehending complex technical knowledge in their books. Imagine if all complex technical books sold in the US are written in French and because most Americans are not fluent or don't know French then most Americans will end up dumb and the US will end up as a 3rd world country. But Filipinos who want to work in call centers and work overseas or jobs that requires english proficiency are able to learn english and other foreign languages fast because they chose to learn it or because of constant usage of the foreign language. Sometimes there are english words that have no native word equivalent. Like in Malaysia, they spell the word "science" to its native Malaysian pronunciation "sains." So it's best to spell foreign words in the native pronunciation if it doesn't have a native word equivalent like they do in Malaysia. Like "Pythagorean Theorem" can be spelled in the Filipino native pronunciation "Paytagoryan Tiyorem" instead. Or the word "perpendicular" can be spelled in the native Filipino pronunciation "perpendikyular." Like in Germany they spell the city of Tokyo "tokio" but in the US they spell Tokyo "tokyo." Language translation software technologies will be very useful in the immediate future in educating children of countries whose native or first languages are not yet developed to convey or express complex math and science concepts, or children who will have to first learn languages like English or Japanese (or languages that are already developed to express or convey complex math and science concepts) before they can learn and express complex math and science concepts. Je 4 Jan 2006 00:08:00 -0800, "Rajah Homaba" <rajah_homaba@yahoo.com> skribis: >The Philippines is a country composed of many nations of different >languages that were forced to function as if they are one single nation [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >other foreign languages fast because they chose to learn it or because >of constant usage of the foreign language. First ... what is your name? It's hard to write to people who haven't identified themselves. I think what you are saying is that nations such as the Philipines are at a disadvantage because many technical documents are not available in their native languages. But what about this: In many colleges and universities in the USA, as many as half of the graduate students in technical fields (math, science, engineering) are foreigners, who do not speak English as their first language. As a translator, an engineer with bilingul work experience, and a holder of a graduate degree, I would suggest that language alone is not a significant barrier to technical education. There was a debate in another translation forum last year, about whether technical translations are easier or more difficult than other types. Personally, I think they are easier, IF the translator is familiar with the subject. Good technical writing consists of straightforward descriptions. There is little need for complex verb tenses, such as the pluperfect and past perfect, etc. It's usually not necessary to use anything other than the third person, singular, sometimes the plural. And most of all, words have the same meanings, consistently.  SignatureSteven M - unspam@hal-pc.orgwax.invalid (remove wax and invalid to reply) The road to wisdom? - Well, it's plain and simple to express: Err and err and err again but less and less and less. -- Piet Hien > Je 4 Jan 2006 00:08:00 -0800, "Rajah Homaba" <rajah_homaba@yahoo.com> > skribis: [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > Err and err and err again > but less and less and less. -- Piet Hien Of course people who know english or are already bilingual have no problem even if english is their secondary language. No problem with them, of course. I'm talking about the people who can't speak, read, write, and comprehend english at all. Well of course if they too learn english then they will have no problem as well. And it's very difficult to learn massive technical knowledge just by taking down notes of the teacher's translation instructions and writings on the board alone. And for students to manually draw complex technical drawings on their notebooks. That's not practical, consumes much of the classroom time and exhaustive to the students. It's best for students to read a book in a language they can comprehend or already translated instead of manually drawing complex technical diagrams on their notebooks or having tons photocopies with one by one manually written arrows pointing to their teacher's translation definitions on their pile of photocopies and notebooks. That's exhaustive and time consuming to classroom time for students. And the student will pile up tons of photocopies of pages with manually written definition translations of their teacher and pile up tons of notebooks very unwieldy. > Of course people who know english or are already bilingual have no > problem even if english is their secondary language. No problem with > them, of course. I'm talking about the people who can't speak, > read, write, and comprehend english at all. Well of course if they too > learn english then they will have no problem as well. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You just unwittingly provided the solution to the problem: just as medical students are required to learn Latin, so too should technical students be required to LEARN ENGLISH. -- DalubI'dRatherSpendMyMoneyOnPornThanTranslationSoftware > > Of course people who know english or are already bilingual have no > > problem even if english is their secondary language. No problem with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > -- > DalubI'dRatherSpendMyMoneyOnPornThanTranslationSoftware I agree. > sci.lang.translation > > Commercial translation software technologies are getting better and > better. Thank y'all, windmills! > Commercial translation software technologies are getting better and > better. Today the software translation errors are very few that a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > languages of the world thereby expanding their market, as in more > profits. I'm not up to date on this, but I seriously doubt that language translation software is available or will become available in the near future to translate (say) English into any/all of the nearly 200 Philippine languages; or even into "Filipino" (which seems to have morphed into some undefined flavor of Tagalog). <snip> > Language translation software technologies will be very useful in the > immediate future in educating children of countries whose native or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > developed to express or convey complex math and science concepts) > before they can learn and express complex math and science concepts. You seem to be saying here that language translation software technologies will be able to translate technical words into languages which have no target-language equivalent of the word being translated ("screw", for example, into the target-language as something like "a metal thing similar to a nail but with a spiral ridge so that it can be inserted into some material such as wood by twisting it in"). I am doubtful. > > Commercial translation software technologies are getting better and > > better. Today the software translation errors are very few that a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Philippine languages; or even into "Filipino" (which seems to have > morphed into some undefined flavor of Tagalog). Like any other money making industry, software translator developers, print publishers, and sellers ought to commission a translator or teams of translators specializing on each of the hundreds of Filipino languages who in turn will receive royalties on each copy of book sold which they translated. Especially with the languages spoken by a viable population size. Good sideline for native language teachers. I'm sure there's no short supply of willing translators for each language if they know they can receive royalties for each book sold. And they can also be the ones to pre-program the translation software to the hundreds of Filipino languages, and the software developers may receive royalties for each book sold as well. Profit venture, book publishing industry. > <snip> > > Language translation software technologies will be very useful in the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > inserted into some material such as wood by twisting it in"). I am > doubtful. Of course human translators will first have to kind of pre-record the native word equivalent and sentence structures etc into the software translator. If there's no native word equivalent, then just spell the foreign word in its native Filipino pronunciation like they do in Malaysia. Like spell the word "screw" to "iskru." In Malaysia they spell the word "science" in its Malaysian pronunciation "sains." > > > Commercial translation software technologies are getting better and > > > better. Today the software translation errors are very few that a [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > they spell the word "science" in its Malaysian pronunciation > "sains." How do they spell the word "signs?" In general, the art of machine translation has not advanced one millemeter beyond the famous "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." (Machine translated into Russian and then back-translated into English by a human translator, yielded "The vodka is strong but the meat is rotten.") The problem is that machines can't think and they can't be made to think. If they somehow miraculously developed this capacity they would also know how to disobey. Modest proposal: Let's teach everybody Latin instead. This is a neutral idiom that even the French wouldn't object to. [Propositum modestum: Potius omnes sermonem Latinum doceamus. Haec lingua est nullius terrae propria quam ne Franci quidem opponent.] See, it can be done. >Modest proposal: Let's teach everybody Latin instead. This is a neutral >idiom that even the French wouldn't object to. [Propositum modestum: >Potius omnes sermonem Latinum doceamus. Haec lingua est nullius terrae >propria quam ne Franci quidem opponent.] See, it can be done. What is the Latin for 'superconducting quantum interference device' (known to its friends as 'SQUID')?(;-) SignatureOOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immoderately. John Woodgate > What is the Latin for 'superconducting quantum interference device' > (known to its friends as 'SQUID')?(;-) Or, for that matter, what the Filipino or Tagalog? >> What is the Latin for 'superconducting quantum interference device' >> (known to its friends as 'SQUID')?(;-) > >Or, for that matter, what the Filipino or Tagalog? Well, we are being told that you 'translate' it into Filipino by changing the spelling. Do you believe that? SignatureOOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immoderately. John Woodgate >>> What is the Latin for 'superconducting quantum interference device' >>> (known to its friends as 'SQUID')?(;-) >> Or, for that matter, what the Filipino or Tagalog? > Well, we are being told that you 'translate' it into Filipino by > changing the spelling. Do you believe that? It works for Welsh, at least for ambiwlans and cwricwlwm :-) Owain >>>> What is the Latin for 'superconducting quantum interference device' >>>> (known to its friends as 'SQUID')?(;-) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >It works for Welsh, at least for ambiwlans and cwricwlwm :-) And 'plismon', I believe. But is that the RIGHT way to add new words to a language? Should 'ambulance' be 'drwgcerbyd' or similar? Should 'curriculum' be 'ystodefridiau' or similar? (I apologize in advance if I've flouted any rules about the formation of compound nouns in Welsh.) The trend to adopt words piecemeal from other languages is what upsets the Francophones, and one can have some sympathy for their sensitivity, even if the methods they use to defend it are often not cricket, or even boules. (;-) SignatureOOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immoderately. John Woodgate > >> What is the Latin for 'superconducting quantum interference device' > >> (known to its friends as 'SQUID')?(;-) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > John Woodgate If a foreign word can't be translated because there is no native word equivalent, then just respell the foreign word to its local pronunciation spelling norm like they do in Malaysia. "Superconducting quantum interference device" is respelled to the local pronunciation spelling norm in the Philippines "Superkondakting kuwantum interferens debays." Like in Germany they spell Tokyo "tokio" but in the US they spell Tokyo "tokyo" depending on the two countries' local pronunciation spelling norm of foreign words like Tokyo. >"Superconducting quantum interference device" is respelled to the local >pronunciation spelling norm in the Philippines "Superkondakting >kuwantum interferens debays." But then none of those words relates in any way to real Filipino words that convey similar ideas. I guess there may be a Filipino word for 'free-flowing' but I also guess that it doesn't bear any resemblance to 'superkondakting'. You might just as well render it as 'bimbamnomnum'. The same applies to 'interferens' and 'debays'. There's some justification for 'kuwantum', since there's no word of similar meaning (in the scientific context) in Filipino or any other language. SignatureOOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immoderately. John Woodgate > >"Superconducting quantum interference device" is respelled to the local > >pronunciation spelling norm in the Philippines "Superkondakting [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > John Woodgate Actually I thought or found a more appropriate Filipino translation for "superconducting quantum interference device" which goes "Sobrang nakakapagkondak na kagamitang pangkuwantum-interferensiya." Very lengthy. > > >"Superconducting quantum interference device" is respelled to the local > > >pronunciation spelling norm in the Philippines "Superkondakting [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > nakakapagkondak na kagamitang pangkuwantum-interferensiya." Very > lengthy. I think this is more correct "Sobrang nakakapagkondak na kagamitang pangharang ng kuwantum." > I think this is more correct "Sobrang nakakapagkondak na kagamitang > pangharang ng kuwantum." ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Okay, I'm a native Tagalog speaker and I don't know wtf "kuwantum" means. And I can't find "kuwantum" in my talasalitaan, either? How do you solve this problem? -- DalubDoesKuwantumRhymeWithDumDum? > > I think this is more correct "Sobrang nakakapagkondak na kagamitang > > pangharang ng kuwantum." [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > -- > DalubDoesKuwantumRhymeWithDumDum? It's the discussion above. >Actually I thought or found a more appropriate Filipino translation for >"superconducting quantum interference device" which goes "Sobrang >nakakapagkondak na kagamitang pangkuwantum-interferensiya." Very >lengthy. So is the Vatican Latin for 'atomic bomb'. SignatureOOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immoderately. John Woodgate > >Actually I thought or found a more appropriate Filipino translation for > >"superconducting quantum interference device" which goes "Sobrang [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > John Woodgate No it isn't: pyrobolus atomicus. Literally atomic fireball. (p. 101 Lexicon recentis Latinitatis, Editum cura operis Fundati cui nomen "Latinitas.". Volumen I, A-L. Libraria Editoria Vaticana in urbe Vaticana, A. MCMLXXXII. ;-) btw is this more or less off topic than the OP's pitch? >No it isn't: pyrobolus atomicus. Literally atomic fireball. (p. 101 >Lexicon recentis Latinitatis, Editum cura operis Fundati cui nomen >"Latinitas.". Volumen I, A-L. Libraria Editoria Vaticana in urbe >Vaticana, A. MCMLXXXII. ;-) I recall the original proposal, which was (back-translated) 'globe exploding with atomic force'. >btw is this more or less off topic than the OP's pitch? I don't see anything particularly OT in s.l.t. Maybe you are posting from another NG, about which I can't comment. SignatureOOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immoderately. John Woodgate >> Actually I thought or found a more appropriate Filipino translation >> for "superconducting quantum interference device" which goes "Sobrang >> nakakapagkondak na kagamitang pangkuwantum-interferensiya." Very >> lengthy. > > So is the Vatican Latin for 'atomic bomb'. Easily translatable to Nippongo. Mushroom Pig > >"Superconducting quantum interference device" is respelled to the local > >pronunciation spelling norm in the Philippines "Superkondakting [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > John Woodgate Any other language except the language that Planck borrowed it from, viz. Latin ("how much": only so much, neither more nor less, due to the Pauli exclusion principle and the discrete nature of matter-energy transmutations at hyperfine scales.) SQUID Latine = Instrumentum Transmissabundum Intercessioni Quanticae Aptum (ITIQA). If for some reason you have to maintain the wholly accidental reference to the cephalopod, then you could also construct an acronym based on LOLIGO. If this seems arbitrary to you, consider the fact than back in the '50s the Jesuit physicist Phillipus Soccorsi published 2 thick books entirely in Latin, _De physica quantica_ and _De Geometriis et Spatiis non Euclideis_ (random chapter headings: "Fundamentum empiricum et principium de constanti velocitate lucis, Elementum lineare pseudo-euclideum definiens metricum chronotopi, Interpretatio ultrarealistica chronotopi Minkowski et hyperspatia pluridimensionalia, Repulsio cosmica et expansio universi, Curvatura quae est nota propria cuiusvis geometriae non euclideae, postulatne ut spatium tridimensionale concipiatur flexum respectu quartae dimensionis...." inter sexcenta alia. Nuff said. To the extent that you might think these are derived from German or English, it is an absolute hallucination. The debt has been in the other direction since the days of Bede and Caedmon. Of course Soccorsi's books are not that easy to find since they were almost never seen lying around on coffee tables. >Any other language except the language that Planck borrowed it from, >viz. Latin ("how much": only so much, neither more nor less, due to the >Pauli exclusion principle and the discrete nature of matter-energy >transmutations at hyperfine scales.) But 'quantum' in Latin does not mean what 'quantum' in the scientific sense means in English. Incidentally, your explanation suggests that Planck should have chosen 'tantum' instead. [Snip] > To the extent that you might think these are derived from German or >English, it is an absolute hallucination. I don't think that. SignatureOOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immoderately. John Woodgate > >Any other language except the language that Planck borrowed it from, > >viz. Latin ("how much": only so much, neither more nor less, due to the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > sense means in English. Incidentally, your explanation suggests that > Planck should have chosen 'tantum' instead. See Humpty Dumpty's answer to Alice. > [Snip] > > > To the extent that you might think these are derived from German or > >English, it is an absolute hallucination. > > I don't think that. I can imagine why that is. You've got aholt a' the critter by the wrong end or, more likely you confuse Latinity with Ciceronicity. The language has a continuous history of 25 centuries as a "living" artifact. > >Modest proposal: Let's teach everybody Latin instead. This is a neutral > >idiom that even the French wouldn't object to. [Propositum modestum: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What is the Latin for 'superconducting quantum interference device' > (known to its friends as 'SQUID')?(;-) Clipeus avernus ? >> >Modest proposal: Let's teach everybody Latin instead. This is a neutral >> >idiom that even the French wouldn't object to. [Propositum modestum: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Clipeus avernus ? Only if not fried. SignatureOOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immoderately. John Woodgate >>>Modest proposal: Let's teach everybody Latin instead. This is a neutral >>>idiom that even the French wouldn't object to. [Propositum modestum: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Clipeus avernus ? Mons veneris? Labia majora? >> Modest proposal: Let's teach everybody Latin instead. This is a >> neutral idiom that even the French wouldn't object to. [Propositum >> modestum: Potius omnes sermonem Latinum doceamus. Haec lingua est >> nullius terrae propria quam ne Franci quidem opponent.] See, it can be >> done. LUTULENTE! > What is the Latin for 'superconducting quantum interference device' > (known to its friends as 'SQUID')?(;-) "Temporal Proximity Does Not Inexorably Lead To Proximate Causation." Mo. Lester Pig Wow. Could you cross post to any more newsgroups? Didn't they put a windmill on top of the Tower of Babel? Oh, and be careful of starting sentences with the word "like". Like, you're no valley girl, like, ah, right? "If the world didn't already have a percentage of wacko's we would have to invent them." Pigette > Commercial translation software technologies are getting better and > better. Today the software translation errors are very few that a [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > developed to express or convey complex math and science concepts) > before they can learn and express complex math and science concepts. Ayon kay Rose Melinis: > Wow. Could you cross post to any more newsgroups? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "If the world didn't already have a percentage of wacko's we would have to > invent them." Pigette Naw, there's nothing wrong with improving child education. Not be political or antagonistic about it. > > Commercial translation software technologies are getting better and > > better. Today the software translation errors are very few that a [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > developed to express or convey complex math and science concepts) > > before they can learn and express complex math and science concepts. This isn't about educating children. It's about selling more books. That's totally non-political and totally non-antagonistic. It's commercial nonsense. With the structure of language, especially the differences in structure in say, French, as opposed to English, an automated translator is more Star Wars dreams. "Finding a common denominator means finding the lowest common denominator - and that is anti to any type of progress." Pigette > Ayon kay Rose Melinis: >> Wow. Could you cross post to any more newsgroups? [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] >> > developed to express or convey complex math and science concepts) >> > before they can learn and express complex math and science concepts. > This isn't about educating children. It's about selling more books. That's > totally non-political and totally non-antagonistic. It's commercial [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "Finding a common denominator means finding the lowest common denominator - > and that is anti to any type of progress." Pigette Selling more child / college education books specially the best quality doesn't sound bad. I think software translators are functioning more like search engines rather than actually translating. Storing all existing possible sentence structures and each of the possible individual words that can be placed on each of the slots on those sentence structures. Probably more of a database search engine program rather than a real translator. So the program depends on hardware memory space capacity. More hardware memory storage, more sentence structures and words to store, more successful pre-stored translation. But you're right a machine is still just a machine. It's still sharing knowledge to educate. > > Ayon kay Rose Melinis: > >> Wow. Could you cross post to any more newsgroups? [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > >> > developed to express or convey complex math and science concepts) > >> > before they can learn and express complex math and science concepts. As a professional translator, I would never recommend translation software to do any kind of extensive work! When a machine translates, you get exactly that, a machine translation. For the perfect example of what you DO NOT want your documents or fiction to look like, check out a sample of Kenji Shiratori's work BLOOD ELECTRIC on Amazon.com. What a travesty. Completely illegible. > As a professional translator, I would never recommend translation > software to do any kind of extensive work! When a machine translates, > you get exactly that, a machine translation. For the perfect example of > what you DO NOT want your documents or fiction to look like, check out > a sample of Kenji Shiratori's work BLOOD ELECTRIC on Amazon.com. What a > travesty. Completely illegible. I presume that what the last sentence fragment above was intended to say was "Completely unintelligible." ("Illegible" means "unreadable" only in the sense that the reader cannot discern the letters, not that the sentence makes no sense.) Surely no competent professional translator could have made such a mistake! Is it possible that the passage above was produced by translation software? > > As a professional translator, I would never recommend translation > > software to do any kind of extensive work! When a machine translates, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Surely no competent professional translator could have made such a mistake! > Is it possible that the passage above was produced by translation software? Near and far synonyms of 'illegible:' unreadable, unintelligible, indecipheable, indistinct, unclear; scrawled, scrawly, scribbled, scribbly. M in D's usage was correct. Anyway, you are losing focus. His assertion is correct. Machines can't understand human languages and therefore they can't translate them, at least not until humans have devolved so far that their words become incapable of fulfilling any functions but those of pheromones. Thank you B. T. Raven for the backup. >> > As a professional translator, I would never recommend translation >> > software to do any kind of extensive work! When a machine translates, [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > indecipheable, indistinct, unclear; scrawled, scrawly, scribbled, > scribbly. > M in D's usage was correct. No it wasn't. The putative intent of his sentence fragment was to say that the machine translation produced something that could not be _understood_ intellectually ("unintelligible"), not something that could not be _read_ optically ("illegible"). He was wrong, and you are even more wrong for repeating the error after it has been pointed out to you. A "far synonym" is NOT automatically substitutable for the correct word. (As Mark Twain put it, there's quite a difference between lightning and a "lightning bug" [firefly].) Not everyone has to speak perfect English all the time - I certainly don't, and I've been practicing longer than most around here. But when the *subject* is correct English usage, it behooves us to look closely at the words in question, not grab at any old "far synonym" that floats into our ken. Anyway, you are losing focus. Not at all. HIS focus was on the evils of machine translation. MY focus was on his inability to write English correctly, especially after claiming to be a professional translator. I maintain that focus, as is my option. His assertion is > correct. Machines can't understand human languages and therefore they > can't translate them, at least not until humans have devolved so far that > their words become incapable of fulfilling any functions but those of > pheromones. I agree. But his very statement proves that many humans also have difficulty in translation - or, indeed, in expressing themselves in correct English. It certainly does not inspire confidence in "professional translators"! No, I meant illegible. It is UNREADABLE. I meant exactly what I have said. Read the book and you will understand what I am saying. Thank you, Made in DNA > No, I meant illegible. It is UNREADABLE. I meant exactly what I have > said. Read the book and you will understand what I am saying. > > Thank you, > Made in DNA If someone contumaciously refuses to understand, it is not possible to force him to understand. Ngo may belong to that school of lexicographers that maintains the one word, one meaning rule. Lego, legere, legi, lectus; I read, to read, I red, red. Some people think that _Finnegans Wake_ is unreadable, others that books recommended by Oprah are unreadable. I lean to the second opinion (Franzen excepted). You are correct. I concede. =) |
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