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Discussion Groups / ESL Teaching / February 2006gendo: quotation
One should love God mindlessly. By this I mean that your soul ought to be without mind or mental activities or images or representations. Bare your soul of all mind and stay there without mind. Moreover, I advise you to let your own "being you" sink away and melt into God's "being God". In this way your "you" and God's "his" will become completely one "my". And you will come to know his changeless existence and his nameless nothingness. - Meister Eckhart gendo: a way of thinking... language as a path to liberation... .unconscious, erroneous assumptions imposed upon our thinking by the structure of the language (english) running in our skulls are responsible for most of what is wrong with the world in both the personal and planetary domains heron unDO email address ___ Nature, heron stone to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net > One should love God mindlessly. By this I mean that your soul ought to > be without mind or mental activities or images or representations. Bare [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net > must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net Cool quotation and reference ! One concurs. http://groups.google.co.uk/group/THE-SCOTS-CHURCH/browse_frm/thread/9c8cbc1233ec 8c8c/328e75ba6d8e85c3?hl=en#328e75ba6d8e85c3 > > One should love God mindlessly. By this I mean that your soul ought to > > be without mind or mental activities or images or representations. Bare [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > http://groups.google.co.uk/group/THE-SCOTS-CHURCH/browse_frm/thread/9c8cbc1233ec 8c8c/328e75ba6d8e85c3?hl=en#328e75ba6d8e85c3 Assume this is known but the title is correct gnenian does come from the Gaelic root gne meaning gender / sex (indo european root gn associated with knowledge al la gnosis . Well done. > > One should love God mindlessly. By this I mean that your soul ought to > > be without mind or mental activities or images or representations. Bare [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > http://groups.google.co.uk/group/THE-SCOTS-CHURCH/browse_frm/thread/9c8cbc1233ec 8c8c/328e75ba6d8e85c3?hl=en#328e75ba6d8e85c3 Assume this is known but the title is correct gnenian does come from the Gaelic root gne meaning gender / sex (indo european root gn associated with knowledge al la gnosis . Well done. > One should love God mindlessly. By this I mean that your soul ought to > be without mind or mental activities or images or representations. Bare [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > nameless nothingness. > - Meister Eckhart A masterful expression of truth for those who can understand it. It speaks from a place I'm going to.  SignatureStephen Lennox Head, Australia >> One should love God mindlessly. By this I mean that your soul ought >> to be without mind or mental activities or images or [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > It speaks from a place I'm going to. It's funny how people seem to like agreeing or disagreeing with these quotes that Heron posts from time to time, as though they'd been posted as some sort of recommendation. I've always assumed that they were intended as examples of woolly thinking caused by defects in the language, as indicated in the part you snipped: [quote] .unconscious, erroneous assumptions imposed upon our thinking by the structure of the language (english) running in our skulls are responsible for most of what is wrong with the world in both the personal and planetary domains [unquote] -- Regards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >>>One should love God mindlessly. By this I mean that your soul ought >>>to be without mind or mental activities or images or [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > world in both the personal and planetary domains > [unquote] We have diverged into philosophy. It's not the structure of language that's the problem. The "problem", if there is one, is the ego that creates the constructs and assumptions, including every belief that results in any kind of problem. In truth there is no problem, or looked at from the other side of duality, the only problem is duality itself and the solution is oneness. All thinking that involves duality or separation of any kind is woolly and erroneous; only the timeless eternal unity of love is real, and that is unspeakable. SignatureStephen Lennox Head, Australia > We have diverged into philosophy. > > It's not the structure of language that's the problem. The "problem", if > there is one, is the ego that creates the constructs and assumptions, > including every belief that results in any kind of problem. .i wouldn't say that you are wrong, but i would suggest that there is another map for the territory that is equally valid... that the "ego" is a fiction of the language machine, that the "ego" is created by the constructs of the language running in the language machine... the assumptions built into the language... that there is, in fact, no such "thing" as an "ego" > In truth > there is no problem, or looked at from the other side of duality, the > only problem is duality itself and the solution is oneness. All thinking > that involves duality or separation of any kind is woolly and erroneous; > only the timeless eternal unity of love is real, and that is unspeakable. hear hear (or is it here here?) heron unDO email address ___ Nature, heron stone to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net [Stephen] >>We have diverged into philosophy. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > assumptions built into the language... that there is, > in fact, no such "thing" as an "ego" My take on it is that language is an artefact of the ego and not vice versa. This reflects that not all the ego's errors are language based. It's true there is no ego, but changing the language structure won't solve the problem, which is the belief in problems. >>In truth >>there is no problem, or looked at from the other side of duality, the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > hear hear (or is it here here?) Here now? SignatureStephen Lennox Head, Australia > >>It's not the structure of language that's the problem. The "problem", if > >>there is one, is the ego that creates the constructs and assumptions, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > It's true there is no ego, but changing the language structure won't > solve the problem, which is the belief in problems. .without language, their could be neither ego nor belief in problems unDO email address ___ Nature, heron stone to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net >>>>It's not the structure of language that's the problem. The "problem", if >>>>there is one, is the ego that creates the constructs and assumptions, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > .without language, their could be neither ego nor belief in problems Are you sure there can be no ego without language? No language without ego, that I can grasp. SignatureStephen Lennox Head, Australia > >>>>It's not the structure of language that's the problem. The "problem", if > >>>>there is one, is the ego that creates the constructs and assumptions, > >>>>including every belief that results in any kind of problem. > >>>.i wouldn't say that you are wrong, but i would suggest that > >>> there is another map for the territory that is equally [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Stephen > Lennox Head, Australia On account of some sort of language. Without language of some sort it might be all id. The key point about language and ego is extended awareness given by language the more that this is supported by language the more the ego seems real (and only seems real as there is not really any such thing) [...] > On account of some sort of language. Without language of some sort it > might be all id. The key point about language and ego is extended > awareness given by language the more that this is supported by > language the more the ego seems real (and only seems real as there > is not really any such thing) I'm as up for a bit of mysticism as the next bloke, but it'll need more than a few confident assertions to convince me that there's no ego. SignatureMike. > [...] > > On account of some sort of language. Without language of some sort it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I'm as up for a bit of mysticism as the next bloke, but it'll need more > than a few confident assertions to convince me that there's no ego. .there is no such "thing" as ego in the same sense that there is no such "thing" as honor, dignity, love, etc. .these are not "things"... not substances .they refer to _relationships_ between "things"... an entirely different level of abstraction .although english often marks these nouns with clear suffix endings (-ence, -ship, -hood, -ness, -ty, etc.), english speakers generally fail to heed this distinction, leading to endless and totally moot arguments unDO email address ___ Nature, heron stone to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net > > [...] > > > On account of some sort of language. Without language of some sort it [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net > must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net Or think of the analogy of white light being composed of all the other light of the colour spectrum though not a member of that spectrum itself here represented not as colours but as you he her them one etc. either way its always better to confound the armies of whatever on one side and the armies of whatever on the other side who themselves want the ego destroyed with a pre-arranged beneficiary of that egos destructions - oneself perhaps - that will stop them inheriting its goods when the ego is destroyed in little ways by being proved wrong about something perhaps. So the security of extended being is the beneficiary of the egos subjectivity and vulnerability too - the more it is pursued willingly the safer the person is. > > .there is no such "thing" as ego in the same sense > > that there is no such "thing" as honor, dignity, [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > beneficiary of the egos subjectivity and vulnerability too - the more > it is pursued willingly the safer the person is. huh? .i'm afraid i don't understand you ?could you try it again thanks heron unDO email address ___ Nature, heron stone to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net [...] >> I'm as up for a bit of mysticism as the next bloke, but it'll need >> more than a few confident assertions to convince me that there's no [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > .they refer to _relationships_ between "things"... > an entirely different level of abstraction [...] Hmm. I don't think ego is of the same order as qualities or relations. It can certainly imply qualities or relations, but that doesn't mean it is one of them. SignatureMike. > > .there is no such "thing" as ego in the same sense > > that there is no such "thing" as honor, dignity, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > It can certainly imply qualities or relations, but that doesn't mean it > is one of them. .i agree... but it has the same (or at least very similar) "concreteness quotient" as the abstractions i mentioned .the idea of levels of abstraction is way more complex than suggested by my previous post... but it would take a thesis to say it correctly heron unDO email address ___ Nature, heron stone to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net > .there is no such "thing" as ego in the same sense > that there is no such "thing" as honor, dignity, > love, etc. > .these are not "things"... not substances > .they refer to _relationships_ between "things"... > an entirely different level of abstraction You're not going far enough. The ego is an artefact of a separate mind, which itself is impossible. Mind is one. SignatureStephen Lennox Head, Australia > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I'm as up for a bit of mysticism as the next bloke, but it'll need more > than a few confident assertions to convince me that there's no ego. There's no convincing to be done. The experience is had or not. We've diverged into philosophy. Egolessness is that mystic state of nonidentification with ego, described as onelessness or non-duality, that convinces the experiencer of the nonreality of all perceptual experience, all of which is dual in nature. The ego is particularly uninclined to believe in its own nonexistence and extraordinarily resistant even to accepting the possibility of such an experience. For those who have the experience, it seems to just happen, despite the ego, but sometimes as a result of conscious effort towards the necessary nonidentification with it. It's very likely that after reading this you will still have an ego and the wish to keep it. But other possibilities are open. SignatureStephen Lennox Head, Australia >>Are you sure there can be no ego without language? >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the more the ego seems real (and only seems real as there is not > really any such thing) Does the problem of suffering go away without language? SignatureStephen Lennox Head, Australia > >>Are you sure there can be no ego without language? > >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Stephen > Lennox Head, Australia Was getting rid of language anywhere a goal in any of the postings? >>>>Are you sure there can be no ego without language? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Was getting rid of language anywhere a goal in any of the postings? I'm exploring the possibility that ego disappears if language does; that is, looking at whether I can make your map work for me. SignatureStephen Lennox Head, Australia > >>>>Are you sure there can be no ego without language? > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Stephen > Lennox Head, Australia There it does not exactly dissapear but is rather transferred somewhere else. In blocking it in some areas through passivization it opens up in other areas. In opening it to the possibilities of the passive voice it pursues that passive agenda and doing so creates a situation in which its opposite active agenda voive might flourish more than it otherwise would. The solitudinum refers to the roman saying of tacitus ascribed to calgacus (the first recorded inhabitant of Scotland - Alba) they create a solitudinum and call it a desert - "ubi solitudinem fasciunt pacem appelant" out of which desert / wasteland/ ones people emerged as a people referred to in the external world in the formal external sense as scots translated internally as Albannach (we) - emergent like white light is on colour on He who is Gaelic (another translation of Sco but being only a part of the potential duality referred to by the 'one' and yet if his 3rd ness was to be spoken from (1st person remoived it would be from 3rd person and so as 3rd person singular passive and so as one who is scottish and so represtative of both Its partly an affectation to express the fact that when one uses the 2nd person - one does so to affect and thus nurture (Nature and nurture) but that when one uses the 3rd person one is not able to nurture that which is at a 3rd person remove (nature or natured) thus if one wished to speak with ones peers one might consider such to be beyond nurture - 3rd person. if one were to speak to the 3rd though one could only do so FROM the third and one would do so with the 3rd (person singular passive - nature / innate / scottish national/native ) and so on and so on As an extended metaphor of nature and nurture and ego at a MASSIVE level. Not destroying language but spanning languages (plural) and voices. All of which thinking is how one oneself was endeared to this type of mental gymnastics and not through the original quote above which one was unaware of and so delighted to see. Pretty manky by comparison probably but still... > All of which thinking is how one oneself was endeared to this type of > mental gymnastics and not through the original quote above which one > was unaware of and so delighted to see. > > Pretty manky by comparison probably but still... I was delighted to see it too. My aim is to explore ways of staying in touch with the experience of oneness that was complete fulfilment in an instant, as far as is possible in what could be called the ordinary waking state. There seems to be a contradiction because the experience is far from ordinary. To put it another way, I seek the extraordinary in each moment of ordinariness, knowing that the timeless connected moment can be experienced now and only now. SignatureStephen Lennox Head, Australia > I was delighted to see it too. My aim is to explore ways of staying in > touch with the experience of oneness that was complete fulfilment in an > instant, as far as is possible in what could be called the ordinary > waking state. There seems to be a contradiction because the experience > is far from ordinary. > To put it another way, I seek the extraordinary in > each moment of ordinariness, knowing that the timeless connected > moment can be experienced now and only now. .of course, there is a contradiction involved in this pursuit... .the one who seeks the extraordinary, is the one who thinks the extraordinary is separate from itself .thus, the more earnestly one seeks, the more remote the possibility of success .it seems to me that the best we can do is to remove obstacles to its spontaneous emergence when we become aware of them .thus, my emphasis on linguistics good luck heron unDO email address ___ Nature, heron stone to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net >>I was delighted to see it too. My aim is to explore ways of staying in >>touch with the experience of oneness that was complete fulfilment in an [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > good luck Yep, you too. I am finding what I seek, as are you. We are one. SignatureStephen Lennox Head, Australia > > Was getting rid of language anywhere a goal in any of the postings? > > I'm exploring the possibility that ego disappears if language does; that > is, looking at whether I can make your map work for me. .i'm not suggesting that you get rid of language... or that it is even possible or desirable... or something that a "you" can do... since "you" are a figment of the language machine ? who is going to make this work for whom unDO email address ___ Nature, heron stone to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net >>>Was getting rid of language anywhere a goal in any of the postings? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > are a figment of the language machine > ? who is going to make this work for whom Exactly. SignatureStephen Lennox Head, Australia > > Does the problem of suffering go away without language? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Was getting rid of language anywhere a goal in any of the postings? .well, it's certainly not my intention .i just want to debug it... get rid of the unconscious nonsense and assumptions heron unDO email address ___ Nature, heron stone to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net >>>Does the problem of suffering go away without language? >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > .i just want to debug it... get rid of the unconscious > nonsense and assumptions Big job. My discovery is that nearly all my assumptions, even that my senses report correctly, were false. SignatureStephen Lennox Head, Australia > > .well, it's certainly not my intention > > .i just want to debug it... get rid of the unconscious > > nonsense and assumptions > > Big job. My discovery is that nearly all my assumptions, even that my > senses report correctly, were false. .yes, that's a powerful and liberating discovery unDO email address ___ Nature, heron stone to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net > > On account of some sort of language. Without language of some sort it > > might be all id. The key point about language and ego is extended [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Does the problem of suffering go away without language? possibly, if you distinguish between pain and suffering .pain is inevitable .suffering is optional unDO email address ___ Nature, heron stone to be commanded, http://www.gendo.net must be obeyed. mailto:heronDO@gendo.net |
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