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pre-english... for adult students of english as a foreign language

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heron stone - 19 Mar 2006 06:56 GMT
.this is the course you should have taken when you first
   started learning english
.accurately hearing the sounds of english is the basic
   skill you must acquire if you intend to become a
   fluent speaker of english and an active member of
   the english-speaking community or get a high score
   on the TOEFL

.the original and primary linguistic impulse is hearing/
   speaking...   not reading/writing

.first...  listening
.then...   speaking
.then...   reading/writing
.this is the natural order of language acquisition
.this is how you mastered your first language
.this is how you will master english

.however, there is no magic
.it takes babies 5 to 10 years to master the sounds
   of english
.but, babies are stupid
.you can do it in 100 to 300 hours of focused work

.once you have learned to hear english properly, you will
   never again have to struggle with this element of
   language
.you will be able to move on to more interesting,
   challenging aspects of english... confident in your
   ability to hear english accurately

.this is a new program, still in the development process
.i'm looking for students to test the materials at no charge,
    (for a while, anyway)
.i am available to discuss pre-english and other aspects
    of english as a foreign language every tuesday from
    8:00 to 9:00 p.m., california time
.please join me on gizmo at:  1222gendo
.i will try to answer your questions satisfactorily
.you can come and practice your english speaking skills
    at least

.learn about gizmo and download the free software at:
    http://www.gizmoproject.com/

thank you,

heron stone

unDO email address
___
Nature,                                                 heron stone
 to be commanded,                            http://www.gendo.net
        must be obeyed.                 mailto:heronDO@gendo.net
Martin Ambuhl - 19 Mar 2006 07:14 GMT
> .this is the course you should have taken when you first
>     started learning english

When are you going to take it?  For some time now, you have been
flooding the English usage newsgroups with proof that you have no clue
at all about the language other than how to abuse it.

You definitely have no business pretending to any knowledge to about
what someone needs to learn the language. There is no bigger joke than
the idea that "heron stone" could offer anything to someone hoping to
"be fluent speaker of english and an active member of the
english-speaking community or get a high score
on the TOEFL."

Prospective students of English be warned: "heron stone" presents
something that is not English.  He is a fraud.  Avoid him.
Reinhold (Rey) Aman - 19 Mar 2006 07:30 GMT

> .this is the course you should have taken when
>      you first started learning english

[snipped most of its sh.t]

> .it takes babies 5 to 10 years to master
    the sounds of english

What a moron.
In addition, a child 5 to 10 years old is not a "baby."

You don't listen, do you, you stubborn c.nt.
Keep your goofy sh.t out of <alt.usage.english>.

Now f.ck off and die already.  Please.

~~~ Rey ~~~
Steve Hayes - 19 Mar 2006 07:49 GMT
>.this is the course you should have taken when you first
>    started learning english
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>    the english-speaking community or get a high score
>    on the TOEFL
You don't seem to have much clue about English capitalisation, so I wouldn't
trust the rest of it.

Signature

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

CDB - 19 Mar 2006 18:51 GMT
>> .this is the course you should have taken when you first
>>    started learning english
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> You don't seem to have much clue about English capitalisation, so I
> wouldn't trust the rest of it.

!hi, HeroN
.speaking of capitalization: before you take Dr. Aman's advice, which
I am convinced is kindly meant, (if indeed you intend to do so) I have
a question for yoU
?would you consider putting a capital letter at the end of each
sentence, to mark it as sucH
...I do find myself wondering, sometimes, if you finished up or just
got tireD
.emwtK
Django Cat - 19 Mar 2006 10:30 GMT
> .this is the course you should have taken when you first
>     started learning english
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>   to be commanded,                            http://www.gendo.net
>          must be obeyed.                 mailto:heronDO@gendo.net

Honest Heron, I mean we all know you post a lot of meaningless New Age
bollocks on a regular basis, but please don't try and waste people's
time with this pompous drivel. You clearly don't have a clue what
you're talking about.

As for your basic premise, no, babies are not 'stupid', in fact they're
infinitely better at acquiring languages than adults are.  They also
have 24 hours a day to concentrate on it, which any clients you attract
won't.
DC
Enrico C - 20 Mar 2006 19:16 GMT
On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 03:30:46 -0600, Django Cat wrote in
<news:MsmdnT6HlO9buYDZRVnysg@brightview.com> on
misc.education.language.english,alt.english.usage,alt.usage.english :

>> .this is the course you should have taken when you first
>>     started learning english
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>
> Honest Heron, I mean we all know you post a lot of meaningless New Age

Yep, we all know he is a spammer...

> bollocks on a regular basis, but please don't try and waste people's
> time with this pompous drivel. You clearly don't have a clue what
> you're talking about.

Would such a method work, with teachers who do have a clue?


> As for your basic premise, no, babies are not 'stupid', in fact they're
> infinitely better at acquiring languages than adults are.

Indeed they are pretty good at acquiring a "native-like" linguistic
ability... ;)

>  They also
> have 24 hours a day to concentrate on it,

You can do that as an adult if you want. Just move to a foreign
country... :)

> which any clients you attract
> won't.

X'Posted to:
misc.education.language.english,alt.english.usage,alt.usage.english
Django Cat - 20 Mar 2006 21:13 GMT
> > Honest Heron, I mean we all know you post a lot of meaningless New
> > Age
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Would such a method work, with teachers who do have a clue?

Well, maybe, but adults learn differently from babies and it wouldn't
necessarily be the best way for them to approach learning a second
language (and learning a second language is not the same as acquiring a
first one...).  For instance, if you listen to children talking, they
go through stages of creating language and experimenting with rules.
This comes out with, say, irregular verbs, so a four year old might say
*"I goed to see my friend" instead of "I went".  I bet if you think
about it, children do the same sort of thing in Italian.

This is part of growing up, and children move on to the next stage over
a period of months.  But an adult has better developed intellectual
skills than a four year old.  If an adult can learn a list of irregular
verbs on the train to work over a few weeks, why waste their limited
time waiting to acquire rules over months or years?  And what Heron's
suggesting isn't a new idea, it's as old as the hills, and has been
used in a variety of contexts with greater or lesser success.  What we
*do* talk about often is the concept of 'noticing', which involves
placing language in a student's grasp so that when it's appropriate he
or she starts to use it.

>  
> > As for your basic premise, no, babies are not 'stupid', in fact
> > they're infinitely better at acquiring languages than adults are.
>
> Indeed they are pretty good at acquiring a "native-like" linguistic
> ability... ;)

Yes, if you like, and that's exactly what babies are pre-programmed to
do.  We all learn throughout our lives, but a newborn is a 100% total
learning machine, learning about the planet and learning about language.

We had friends around yesterday, with their six-month daughter.  The
little one was totally involved with us four grown ups, paying full
attention to what was going on (and this in two languages), smiling a
lot, but also frowning sometimes - you could see her puzzling out just
what was going on in this big world she's joined.  It's completely
moronic to say 'babies are stupid'; babies aren't at all stupid, they
just don't know stuff yet.

> >  They also
> > have 24 hours a day to concentrate on it,
>
> You can do that as an adult if you want. Just move to a foreign
> country... :)

That's true.  And marry a local!

DC
 
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