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Discussion Groups / ESL Teaching / May 2007a few questions from novel...
Hi, dear~ Sunday is getting dark, nowadays it's getting hard to make a living (through translation or writing fictions, whatever...), even though the world is getting smaller and more globalized... and English seems to me more difficult -.-; I think Japanese is more easy than english but I don't know your opinion. ;) Anyhow, here's some questions from the novel, The usual thing...1910s America, in a barren Inn in a deadly winter, some people gethered with mysterious purpose like Agasa Christi's mystery novel. Mr. Cargan : Mayor of some city Mr. Max: Mayor's dog (1) Charlie Mr. Cargan talk about candles, who like bright light on his food... and it seems Charlie in his talk is his steward, is key... ---- "Before I came up here to be a hermit," remarked Cargan contemporaneously with the removal of the soup, "which I may say in passing I ain't been able to be with any success owing to the popularity of the sport on Baldpate Mountain, there was never any candles on the table where I et. No, sir. I left them to the people up on the avenue--to Mr. Hayden and his kind that like to work in dim surroundings--I was always strong for a bright light on my food. What I'm afraid of is that I'll get the habit up here and will be wanting Charlie to set out a silver candelabrum with my lager. Candles'd be quite an innovation at Charlie's, wouldn't they, Lou?" "Too swell for Charlie's," commented Mr. Max. "Except after closing hours. I've seen 'em in use there than, but the idea wasn't glory and decoration." "I hope you don't dislike the candles, Mr. Cargan," remarked Miss Norton..... (Two sentences, it's hard to understand.. "Candles'd be quite an ..." and "Too swell for Charlie's. Except after..." Charlie is first appeared in this sentences, only I guess he is Cargan's steward and stupid man, who even don't know how to use candles...? is that right? ) (2) pavement next page, table talk...they talk about romance as table talk... -== "Romance," Cargan reflected. "Well, I ain't much on the talk out of books. But here's what I see when you say that word to me. It's the night before election, and I'm standing in the front window of the little room on Main Street where the boys can always find me. Down the street I hear the snarl and rumble of bands, and pretty soon I see the yellow flicker of torches, like the flicker of that candle, and the bobbing of banners. And then--the boys march by. All the boys! Pat Doherty, and Bob Larsen, and Matt Sanders--all the boys! And when they get to my window they wave their hats and cheer. Just a fat old man in that window, but they'll go to the pavement with any guy that knocks him. They're loyal. They're for me. And so they march by, cheering and singing--all the boys--just for me to see and hear. Well--that--that's romance to me." (I guess 'a fat old man' is Cargan himself. and "but they'll go to the pavement with any guy that knocks him" is not easy to go through..."knocks him" means "blames Cargan"? and "any guy" is who? who for Cargan or against Cargan? and why they go to "the pavement"? 'pavement' have the other meaning? I don't see the other meaning from dictionary...) (3) taxi click here, Cargan's dog, Max talk about romance, -- "...Say romance to me... I see the brightest lights in the world, and the best food, and somebody, maybe, dancing the latest dance in between the tables. And an orchestra playing in the distance--classy dames all about--a taxi cilcking at the door. And me sending word to the chauffeur 'Let her click till the milk carts rumble--I can pay.' Say--that sure is romance to me." (taxi clicking means 'taxi's klaxon'? and 'her' of 'Let her click' means 'a taxi'? and what kind of bridge between 'the milk carts rumble' and 'a taxi' and 'classy dames'? I guess 'the chauffeur' is waiting some of classy dames, so Max want to inform him wait long and long, because Max likes the dames? though 'the milk carts' is mystery to me. I always thanks for your very kind reply...I want to give my local readers more exact traslations... Han Donghoon > .... Candles'd be > quite an innovation at Charlie's, wouldn't they, Lou?" He's saying that they would be something very innovative, very different from what you usually see at Charlie's. They would make a big change. I can imagine that the usual lighting at Charlie's is a naked light bulb dangling on rusty wires, an eyesore and a fire hazard. > "Too swell for Charlie's," commented Mr. Max. "Except after closing hours. Perhaps "too elegant" or "too high-class". > I've seen 'em in use there than, but the idea wasn't glory and > decoration." [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > steward and stupid man, who even don't know how to use candles...? is that > right? ) No it is not about stupidity, it is about style. And "Charlie's" is the name of a restaurant or bar, or other such place. Probably, but not necessarily, owned or run by a man named Charlie. "Charlie's" must be a very low-grade place where you would go for binge drinking, not for candlelit romance. I am not sure I want to know what they use candles for after hours. Probably for some more or less criminal entertainment. > (I guess 'a fat old man' is Cargan himself. and "but they'll go to the > pavement with any guy that knocks him" is not easy to go through..."knocks > him" means "blames Cargan"? and "any guy" is who? who for Cargan or > against "knocks him" here means "attacks him". Most likely meaning a physical assault. > Cargan? and why they go to "the pavement"? 'pavement' have the other > meaning? I don't see the other meaning from dictionary...) I don't know the expression "go to the pavement with sb", but it obviously means to fight. Perhaps to fight so hard that both sides are still fighting when no longer on their feet. The boys like Cargan, and, the fighting types that they are, they cannot think of anything to do for him except declare their readiness to defend him against any aggression. "Any guy" means just that: if any man ever tries to beat Cargan, the boys will beat that man real hard. It does not mean that there are any such enemies around. Cargan is happy because, even though he is just an old man, he can now feel like a head of state receiving a military parade, and smile at his faithful "soldiers". > (3) taxi click > here, Cargan's dog, Max talk about romance, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > so Max want to inform him wait long and long, because Max likes the dames? > though 'the milk carts' is mystery to me. The milk carts once brought fresh milk to people's doors early in the morning, before technology brought us UHT milk of course. The taxi is "clicking" because it is waiting, and the meter counts the waiting time for which the customer will have to pay. Every minute, or maybe every 30 seconds, the meter makes a low "click" noise and increases the payable amount. The speaker believes that if a man is really in love he will send a message to the taxi driver saying "wait as long as it takes, even until morning (the time when the milk carts rumble), because I like the time I am spending with this lady and I will pay you for your waiting, I don't care how much it will cost me". And by seeing him do this, the lady will know that he really cares for her. That is "real romance", according to the speaker. > I always thanks for your very kind reply...I want to give my local readers > more exact traslations... What language are you translating it into? Cheers, Leszek L. Han Donghoon schrieb: > Hi, dear~ > Sunday is getting dark, nowadays it's getting hard to make a living (through [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > steward and stupid man, who even don't know how to use candles...? is that > right? ) I suspect that Charlie's is a reference to a bar or saloon where Charlie is the bar tender or pedrhaps the bar owner. "Swell" means "posh" or "up-market", so I assume Charlie's is a bar that isn't much freauented by richer or more cultured patrons. > (2) pavement > next page, table talk...they talk about romance as table talk... [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Cargan? and why they go to "the pavement"? 'pavement' have the other > meaning? I don't see the other meaning from dictionary...) To "knock someone" is to criticise them. I don't know any idiomatic phrase "go to the pavement'" but from the context I'd say that the marching men would fight anybody who criticises teh "fat old man", i.e. Cargan. > (3) taxi click > here, Cargan's dog, Max talk about romance, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > so Max want to inform him wait long and long, because Max likes the dames? > though 'the milk carts' is mystery to me. When you hire a taxi the driver turns on the meter which meqasures how much you have to pay. Even if you leave the taxi for a while the meter keeps running until you finally get out and pay. In this case he's imagining a romantic exp0erience - bright lights, good food, people dancing the latest dances, attractive women and the taxi he came in waiting for him olutside the door with the meter still running while it waits for him. The chauffeur is the taxi driver. He tells him to keep waiting all night. In earlier times milk was delivered every morning to the doorsteps of people's houses in milk carts - the milk carts used to deliver very early before people got up so that they could have fresh milk for breakfast. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan Oh, what a great answers these are! When I don't know some sentence, then I imagine anything very literally. In that case, almost every guessing goes wrong. Because I don't have much information about different culture, history and their lifestyle, or of my short english. Also I didn't see ['s] of "Charlie's", it seems I got a bit tired of solving the ciphers. I feel I need more exact understanding of words according to eng-eng dictionary. I found out eng-eng dict. is a little diffrent from eng-local dict. in terms of the word's feeling and even meaning. So, I translate it to Korean. We used slightly different Chinese letter set from Japanese, but nowadays we use our own language 'hangul'. Also many Canadian, Australlian and American english teachers of institutes are here, Seoul. A years ago, I learned english from Canadian instructors who pronounce the word 'often' differently from American. Anyhow, thanks again, L and Einde Donghoon > Hi, dear~ > Sunday is getting dark, nowadays it's getting hard to make a living (through [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > > Han Donghoon > Hi, dear~ > Sunday is getting dark, nowadays it's getting hard to make a living (through > translation or writing fictions, whatever...), even though the world is > getting smaller and more globalized... and English seems to me more > difficult -.-; I think Japanese is more easy than english but I don't know > your opinion. ;) In many Asian languages plurals are expressed differently (often using classifiers) to what they are in English. For example instead of saying "I have three cars", one indicates the plural by saying (in effect) "I have car, three of them." and the form of the noun doesn't change. Thus, mixing plurals up is a common error and you have made it when you say "...writing fictions..." As you use the word it should be "fiction" (as a collective noun) and not fictions...you may wish to read a book on English usage. I think it would aid you considerably in your translation efforts. I can unreservedly recommend. "The Elements of Style" by William Strunk and E. B. White. It is a classic text. > Anyhow, here's some questions from the novel, > The usual thing...1910s America, in a barren Inn in a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Mr. Cargan talk about candles, who like bright light on his food... and it > seems Charlie in his talk is his steward, is key... "Mr. Cargan talk"....ahh. Another problem between Asian languages and English is tenses. In Many Asian languages the verb form doesn't change. The word for go remains unchanged for present tense or past tense and the tense is indicated by a helper word (in effect, "I go already"). In English, the verb form does change and the past tense becomes "I went". Verbs in English (and most Romance languages) require more work than in Asian languages. There are some common rules (e.g. indicate past tense by adding "ed" to the present tense form - cook/cooked, wash/washed, fix/fixed), but there are **lots** of exceptions which just need to be memorized.... > ---- > "Before I came up here to be a hermit," remarked Cargan contemporaneously [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > steward and stupid man, who even don't know how to use candles...? is that > right? ) No. Candles'd be is a contraction for candles would be and "...too swell..." is used here to mean that candles would be too fancy or extravagent for a place like Charlies. > (2) pavement > next page, table talk...they talk about romance as table talk... table talk is literally that....talk at a table. Meant to convey informal conversation that takes place among people seated at a table. > -== > "Romance," Cargan reflected. "Well, I ain't much on the talk out of books. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Cargan? and why they go to "the pavement"? 'pavement' have the other > meaning? I don't see the other meaning from dictionary...) "..they'll go to the pavement with anyone that knocks him..." means that the boys will fight with (go to the pavement) with anyone who criticizes (knocks) Caragan. > (3) taxi click > here, Cargan's dog, Max talk about romance, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > (taxi clicking means 'taxi's klaxon'? No. The clicking is the sound of the taxi's meter running while it waits. As the meter clicks the amount owed the taxi driver increases steadily. But in the extravagant mood of the speaker with "the best food' and 'dancing the latest dance' the clicking of the meter means nothing..."I can pay". Let the meter click "till the milk carts rumble"....indicates that he can afford to let the meter click all night. The 'milk carts' deliver fresh milk in the very early morning hours. >and 'her' of 'Let her click' means 'a > taxi'? and what kind of bridge between 'the milk carts rumble' and 'a taxi' [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Han Donghoon > the meter click "till the milk carts rumble"....indicates that he can > afford > to let the meter click all night. The 'milk carts' deliver fresh milk in > the > very early morning hours. In the countryside, people used to say "till the cows come home", bringing the freshest milk of all. But that was in the evening. (just joking). Cheers, L. Leszek L. schrieb: >> the meter click "till the milk carts rumble"....indicates that he can >> afford [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > (just joking). Actually if they waited till the cows came home, they would be waiting for a very long time since the phrase means "for a very long but indefinite time" - not necessarily its literal meaning. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan >> the meter click "till the milk carts rumble"....indicates that he can >> afford [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Cheers, > L. Not correct. Cows don't come home unless rounded up. To wait till the cows come home is to wait forever. |
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