"Taking It In The Shorts"

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joe clarke - 22 Jul 2004 23:18 GMT

Sandy Berger inspired me to try to find the derivation of the phrase,
"Taking it in the shorts." I have looked everywhere, to no avail.
Any ideas?

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Christopher Johnson - 22 Jul 2004 23:41 GMT

> Sandy Berger inspired me to try to find the derivation of the phrase,
> "Taking it in the shorts." I have looked everywhere, to no avail.
> Any ideas?

A quick look at http://www.wordwizard.com (search entry: shorts)
comes up with this suggestion (attributed to Leif Thorvaldson)
that:

".....it possibly derives from US stockmarket parlance. 'Short
selling' is the strategy which involves selling shares you don't
yet own in the expectation that the price will fall and you can
buy them back at a lower price later (thus making a profit)."

Leif Thorvaldson goes on to suggest that:

"....the US stockmarket crash in 1929 was primarily due to so
many people holding "a short position" in the market. When their
notes were unexpectedly called, they didn't have the case to buy
them resulting (in the)loss of large amounts of money. I'm guessing
that the expression originated with the loss of money in "the shorts"
market."

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LarryLard - 23 Jul 2004 12:38 GMT

>
> > Sandy Berger inspired me to try to find the derivation of the phrase,
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> that the expression originated with the loss of money in "the shorts"
> market."

That explanation does not convince me; it seems to ignore the obvious
*physical* interpretation, as mentioned in the other entry at that
site, which tells of a military encounter with a booby trap in 1968:

"The booby trap, a frightening device, the first ones we encountered
were small and mainly used to maim. Trip one and get your leg blown
off, or the Grunts worse nightmare take it in the shorts"

It is a common theme on 'send in your amusing home videos' TV
programmes for the humour of a clip to derive from a man getting hit
(by a ball, a bat, a child, street furniture, etc etc) between the
legs. Given that AmE 'shorts' = BrE 'underpants' (right?) it seems to
me highly likely that 'take in the shorts' comes from this kind of
injury, so 'to suffer painfully'.

Group-googling[*] finds financial references but more that are not, it
looks like.

[*]: searching google's Usernet archive, rather than its Web
index-cache-thing

ps Sandy Berger?

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Larry Lard
Replies to group please

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Peter Duncanson - 23 Jul 2004 12:57 GMT

>>
>> > Sandy Berger inspired me to try to find the derivation of the phrase,
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>[*]: searching google's Usernet archive, rather than its Web
>index-cache-thing

It perfectly possible for a phrase to originate in specialist circles, and
then to acquire a new assumed origin (or a new meaning) when it is taken up
more generally.

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Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e)

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Pat Durkin - 23 Jul 2004 14:31 GMT

> >> > Sandy Berger inspired me to try to find the derivation of the phrase,
> >> > "Taking it in the shorts." I have looked everywhere, to no avail.
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> then to acquire a new assumed origin (or a new meaning) when it is taken up
> more generally.

Yes, but considering the nature of taking or receiving punishment or severe
damage, the metaphor here reminds me more of "the short and curlies", which
means, of course something is going to hit all too close to home.

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Martin Willett - 14 Aug 2004 22:30 GMT

Pat Durkin wrote:

>> It perfectly possible for a phrase to originate in specialist
>> circles, and then to acquire a new assumed origin (or a new

meaning)

>> when it is taken up more generally.
>>
> Yes, but considering the nature of taking or receiving punishment or
> severe damage, the metaphor here reminds me more of "the short and
> curlies", which means, of course something is going to hit all too
> close to home.

What the other Peter said. A phrase can have one origin and another
assumed origin which helps to make it popular and spreads it outside
of its original context. The fact that it reminds you more of one
meaning than another says nothing about the origin of the phrase.
People who hear the phrase "fine-toothed comb" and later use the
nonsensical phrase "tooth-combing" are evidence that people do not
need to understand a phrase in order to spread or popularize it. The
answer to which explanation is definitive cannot be found in analysis
of the phrase and how it is now used, it can only be found in
historical research to find the first recorded usage.

Of course you can speculate all you want, until the cows come home in
fact, whatever that means (now or originally).

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Martin Willett

http://mwillett.org/

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Pat Durkin - 17 Aug 2004 06:31 GMT

> Pat Durkin wrote:
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Of course you can speculate all you want, until the cows come home in
> fact, whatever that means (now or originally).

Can't say that I have much faith in Dictionary stories of the origins of
phases, since I don't have any way of judging the quality or quantity of the
research.

As for "fine-tooth(or toothed) comb", my siblings and I all became infected
with lice when we were small. With much disgust and trepidation (What will
the neighbors say? What will the neighbors?) Mom tackled our scalps with a
great deal of combing (fine-toothed combs had two sides, in my memory--one
side having the teeth only slightly larger and further apart than the other,
and seemed always to be black.) Not to mention the tar-smelling soap she
used. Could hardly get a decent lather up.

Now, I don't spend a lot of time looking up the history of phrases on the
internet. I think my contributions can be ignored or taken with the same
grain of salt with which one consumes the words of the "experts".

I always assumed "Bill Bailey", taking it on the lam, was aware that with
little coin he would be sleeping in lousy conditions.

(I know we discussed "taking it on the lam" some time ago. To my surprise,
a film from the early '30s repeatedly used the expression "taking it on the
limb." "I Am (or Was) a Fugitive from a Chain Gang". Now I know there will
be those who will look up the appropriate verb and will post it here.)

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Sandra Chevarie - 23 Jul 2004 18:23 GMT

I think for me. I have a idea for what that means. In French. we use to say. " La main pris dans les
culottes" or in english. For me. " Hand in the shorts" Caugh in strike

> > > Sandy Berger inspired me to try to find the derivation of the phrase,
> > > "Taking it in the shorts." I have looked everywhere, to no avail.
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> Larry Lard
> Replies to group please

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Brian {Hamilton Kelly} - 23 Jul 2004 20:07 GMT

On 23 Jul, in article
<cd173062.0407230338.474c067@posting.google.com>

> Group-googling[*] finds financial references but more that are not, it
> looks like.
>
> [*]: searching google's Usernet archive, rather than its Web
> index-cache-thing

I tend to write Deja^WGoogling for this activity, since it perpetuates
the name of the original searchable archive DejaNews, bought by and
incorporated into Google <http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search>

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Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"I don't use Linux. I prefer to use an OS supported by a large multi-
national vendor, with a good office suite, excellent network/internet
software and decent hardware support."

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don groves - 22 Aug 2004 23:45 GMT

>> > Sandy Berger inspired me to try to find the derivation of the phrase,
>> > "Taking it in the shorts." I have looked everywhere, to no avail.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> *physical* interpretation, as mentioned in the other entry at that
> site, which tells of a military encounter with a booby trap in 1968:

Well, I can verify the expression was in common use long before 1968.
--
dg

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Christopher Green - 23 Jul 2004 20:38 GMT

>
> > Sandy Berger inspired me to try to find the derivation of the phrase,
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> that the expression originated with the loss of money in "the shorts"
> market."

I don't think this is quite it, though the presence of short sellers
in a market does lead to another colorful expression, "squeezing the
shorts" (bidding up the price of a stock to where the short sellers
are hit with margin calls; when they buy in to close their short
positions, it drives the price of the stock up further).

I think the term simply refers to the painful consequences of getting
the sensitive parts of one's anatomy that are hidden behind one's
undershorts bruised.

And the market crash in 1929 is generally attributed to a panic among
overextended bulls, who had bought heavily on margin (not sold short).
A panic among the bears generally causes a wild rise in prices, not a
wild drop.

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Chris Green

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Discussion Groups / ESL Teaching / August 2004

"Taking It In The Shorts"