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Discussion Groups / ESL Teaching / November 2004Using the public newsgroup
Dear Django Cat, As we inquired about using "forum" or "newsgroups" in language class at the univerisity, this newsgroup was recommended to us. We will try to flag our comments with an "EES" subject line. Unfortunately, the computers in the language lab were not set up to "answer" properly, and each student ended up typing a new message. (Just as I am, today.) As far as I understand, this is still university domain. If you have a suggestion as to how we could use the same type of format, without "clogging" your forum, we will consider it. Otherwise, we must ask that you tolerate the "EES" usage of this forum. Sincerely, Angela Althen >Dear Django Cat, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >As far as I understand, this is still university domain. I hope I misunderstand that. Your posts are readable by anybody using this usenet group, anywhere in the world. They certainly aren't under the ownership of your institution. >If you have a >suggestion as to how we could use the same type of format, without [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Sincerely, >Angela Althen Ooooh (fall-rise intonation). Well, we'll have to live with it then, and it has been quiet of late. Maybe you could start by learning how to respond to a comment in the same thread, rather than starting a new one, and a little netiquette. But this really isn't the most appropriate place to do a class writing practice - what you're doing is not unlike trying to teach a loud class in the street while other people are trying to wait for the bus quietly - and you're going to seriously piss off a lot of other posters who use this group to reflect on EFL teaching, ask grammar points or generally hold forth. You're also setting your students up to responses outside your control (like this one - do you want strangers wandering into your classroom?) I don't know what the techies at the university have told you, but it's always wise to take what techies say with a grain of salt. And if you've got some sort of newsgroup reader software there, and you can use it to post new messages, then you can also use it to post replies to existing ones; its not a question of how computers are 'set up'. I'm guessing from the multinational names of your students you're in an English-speaking country. If you're at any sort of legit university there will be some sort of internal news posting system, either on their own systems or using something like Blackboard or WebCT. You just need to find a techie who knows what they're talking about (not always easy) and ask them to show you. Finally, if that fails it's very easy to set up your own forum. I've done it for projects using a company called 'Bravenet' - http://www.bravenet.com/ The advertising is grisly, and you'll want to keep your pop-up blocker on, but it works - they also let you set up your own chat rooms. Hours of fun for your students. Cheers DC | As far as I understand, this is still university domain. If you | have a suggestion as to how we could use the same type of format, | without "clogging" your forum, we will consider it. Otherwise, | we must ask that you tolerate the "EES" usage of this forum. 1. You can ask the University to set up their own news-server with newsgroups, eg news:hannover.uni.* Whether these are propagated outside the uni is up to the uni and the rest of the world. 2. You may be able to set the "distribution" in your message headers to restrict the propagation of messages. 3. You can ask the University to set you up a web-based forum / bulletin board such as FirstClass (paid for) or an open source alternative such as http://www.phprojekt.com/ (includes chat and forum, open source) http://phorum.org/ (open source) http://www.phpbb.com/ (open source) Please, at least, get your newsreaders set up to post correctly with References: header so your messages 'thread' correctly. This is a low-volume newsgroup full of helpful and tolerant people, but mis-formed headers that do not conform to RFC are a legitimate cause for an abuse report being filed. If you need to test your software or simply demonstrate the concepts of newsgroups, there are test groups for the purpose. news:de.test is probably one. Also review the charter, FAQ (is there one for this group?) and previous discussions which are archived at http://groups.google.com Owain > | As far as I understand, this is still university domain. If you > | have a suggestion as to how we could use the same type of format, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > 2. You may be able to set the "distribution" in your message headers to > restrict the propagation of messages. If that works on their system, let them try it and we'll see if the message shows up elsewhere, then it's the way to do it without having to set anything else up. Sometimes, however, distribution limitations are not functional.  SignatureI heard Clinton buried a time capsule at his new presidential library sized like an overseas shipping container filled with stuff he didn't want anyone to find till long after his death, the real deed to Whitewater, the envelope for the Tyson Foods chicken payoffs, the real gun he used to whack Foster, the keys to the Exocet missile he took Ron Brown out with, copies of another few thousand illegally acquired FBI files on his enemies, tickets to Tahiti from the White House Travel Office, a few more soiled dresses, a couple of cases of well chewed Cuban cigars, and the unabridged version of his autobiography. That last one was touch and go just getting the bugger in. Dear Django Cat, Owain and all other users of this forum, With this note, I would like to offer my apologies for disturbing your forum. I was definitely under a false impression of how this address functions. Now that I realize what has happened, I am embarassed. I am sorry for clogging your site with our letters. In future, we will refrain from using this service. Certainly, I appreciate your suggestions for how to develop our own forum. We will explore that option, but "at a distance." Best wishes for your future exchanges, Angela Althen >Dear Django Cat, Owain and all other users of this forum, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Best wishes for your future exchanges, >Angela Althen Now I feel (BrE) mean. CMC is a great way to get students writing and communicating, and I hope you keep going with it. I'm just finishing a Masters in English Language Teaching and Educational Technology - there's a lot of things that can be done. Forums and chat are good - but you need to get the University techies working for you so that you find the best means to exploit these technologies. One idea is to set up a collaborative Blog with students - it's a bit fiddly, involving emailing invites to all the participants, but worthwhile. Your starting point would be http://www.blogger.com/ - ones I've done are at http://dmebloggers.blogspot.com/ (scarily I've noticed one of the students has added to it from home in Libya - that's the first time I've looked at it in six months) and http://class5magazine.blogspot.com/ . Lots of students come to MELE (I suspect recommended by their teachers) and post individual queries. I think it's fair to say that they'll get a more supportive atmosphere on this group than on other groups where English usage is discussed, such as alt.usage.english or alt.english.usage, and they're far more likely to get a response from an EFL/ESL teacher who understands the way EFL students are taught and will respond appropriately to their questions. Another advantage is that your students can be involved in direct interaction with native speakers (I've clocked you're in Karlruhe now, so this could be valid - mind you, I can't get my students to interact with native speakers, and I teach in Manchester). MELE's a really good group, though very quiet lately, with some excellent people posting: teachers, learners and folk with an interest in how people learn English. I've been involved for a year (it started as research for my masters, but that's another story) and I've learnt a lot from discussions here, as well as being infuriated from time to time. I hope you'll hang around and join us. DC > Dear Django Cat, Owain and all other users of this forum, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > for clogging your site with our letters. In future, we will refrain from > using this service. No one here owns this newsgroup any more than you do. In fact, if you take a look, the group is mostly dead most of the time. If you can propagate locally most of the intralata traffic and just globally post perhaps three to five questions per day to this group, you'll probably help make it a better place. SignatureI heard Clinton buried a time capsule at his new presidental library sized like an overseas shipping container filled with stuff he didn't want anyone to find till long after his death, the real deed to Whitewater, the envelope for the Tyson Foods chicken payoffs, the real gun he used to whack Foster, the keys to the Exocet missile he took Ron Brown out with, copies of another few thousand illegally acquired FBI files on his enemies, tickets to Tahiti from the White House Travel Office, a few more soiled dresses, a couple of cases of well chewed Cuban cigars, and the unabridged version of his autobiography. That last one was touch and go just getting the bugger in. >> Dear Django Cat, Owain and all other users of this forum, >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >No one here owns this newsgroup any more than you do. In fact, if you >take a look, the group is mostly dead most of the time. So let's kick it going away from the tedious prescriptivist farts and old boys (and girls) club on AUE. > If you can >propagate locally most of the intralata Wossat then? > traffic and just globally post >perhaps three to five questions per day to this group, you'll probably >help make it a better place. Go on then. DC. It's One o'clock and time for lunch. Dum de dum de dum. >> Dear Django Cat, Owain and all other users of this forum, >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >perhaps three to five questions per day to this group, you'll probably >help make it a better place. Actually Bill, I just read your post again and thought, yes, that could be useful. Or we could just suggest that Angela encourages her students to come up with three or four language-related questions every day, and post them here - and that would perk the group up. DC - And shall I wait forever, beside the silent mirror, and fish for bitter minnows, amongst the leaves and slimy waters? > No one here owns this newsgroup any more than you do. In fact, if you > take a look, the group is mostly dead most of the time. If you can > propagate locally most of the intralata traffic and just globally post > perhaps three to five questions per day to this group, you'll probably > help make it a better place. That seems to me a well-advised, sensible idea :) > > No one here owns this newsgroup any more than you do. In > > fact, if you take a look, the group is mostly dead most of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > That seems to me a well-advised, sensible idea :) Except that she's almost certainly not reading any of this anymore. You'd probably have as much luck inviting "heron stone"'s club to contribute. SignatureMark Barratt Budapest >> > No one here owns this newsgroup any more than you do. In >> > fact, if you take a look, the group is mostly dead most of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >anymore. You'd probably have as much luck inviting "heron >stone"'s club to contribute. Sadly you're right. Ho hum. [whistles, shivers, blows into gloved hands]. Internet checkers anyone? DC, wondering if anybody ever turns up for Heron's gigs. > >> > No one here owns this newsgroup any more than you do. In > >> > fact, if you take a look, the group is mostly dead most of [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > DC, wondering if anybody ever turns up for Heron's gigs. I asked her (him?) a while back, on uh, October the 8th: >> Nobody turned up yet, huh? > not yet... > .but it's ok > .i study a couple hours every day at Borders > .so i'm there anyway. > .if someone shows up, it'll be fun > .if not, i'll study > heron I quite admire his/her persistence. I might be tempted to go, if I was in that part of the world, if only to explain about the use of the shift key and the concept of spam. SignatureMark Barratt Budapest >> heron > >I quite admire his/her persistence. I might be tempted to go, if >I was in that part of the world, if only to explain about the use >of the shift key and the concept of spam. Still, he would tell you: "Take a chair. Any goddamn chair..." SignatureEnrico C /testing Pimmy/ Reply to: enrico /dot/ c /at\ people \dot\ it -- FREENET By X-Privat - http://www.x-privat.org/infofreenet.php >> > No one here owns this newsgroup any more than you do. In >> > fact, if you take a look, the group is mostly dead most of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >anymore. You'd probably have as much luck inviting "heron >stone"'s club to contribute. Perhaps, using MELE for questions of general interest was what someone at her uni had in mind in the first place, when they suggested to Angela that her students post on this group. SignatureEnrico C /testing Pimmy/ Reply to: enrico /dot/ c /at\ people \dot\ it -- FREENET By X-Privat - http://www.x-privat.org/infofreenet.php > Dear Django Cat, > > As we inquired about using "forum" or "newsgroups" in language class at the > univerisity, this newsgroup was recommended to us. I suspect there was some misunderstanding. Did they also tell you *how* use it? This is a public newsgroup, so it's intended for messages that are relevant to the generality of readers, not for private / internal discussions. > We will try to flag our > comments with an "EES" subject line. Unfortunately, the computers in the > language lab were not set up to "answer" properly, and each student ended up > typing a new message. (Just as I am, today.) Just use the "Reply to all" button with OE or the appropriate command in the newsreader / web interface you use. > As far as I understand, this is still university domain. No, it's not. > If you have a > suggestion as to how we could use the same type of format, without > "clogging" your forum, we will consider it. Otherwise, we must ask that you > tolerate the "EES" usage of this forum. That way, you expose your students to the risk of disturbing and being disturbed by other users. > Dear Django Cat, > > As we inquired about using "forum" or "newsgroups" in language class at the > univerisity, this newsgroup was recommended to us. I suspect there was some misunderstanding. Did they also tell you *how* to use it? This is a public newsgroup, so it's intended for messages that are relevant to the generality of readers, not for private / internal discussions. > We will try to flag our > comments with an "EES" subject line. Unfortunately, the computers in the > language lab were not set up to "answer" properly, and each student ended up > typing a new message. (Just as I am, today.) Just use the "Reply to all" button with OE or the appropriate command in the newsreader / web interface you use. > As far as I understand, this is still university domain. No, it's not. > If you have a > suggestion as to how we could use the same type of format, without > "clogging" your forum, we will consider it. Otherwise, we must ask that you > tolerate the "EES" usage of this forum. That way, you expose your students to the risk of disturbing and being disturbed by other users. > I suspect there was some misunderstanding. Did they also tell > you *how* to use it? You mean, for example, how not to post the same message twice? SignatureMark Barratt Budapest > > I suspect there was some misunderstanding. Did they also tell > > you *how* to use it? > > You mean, for example, how not to post the same message twice? Precisely precisely ;-) [Ouch, you got me!] > > > I suspect there was some misunderstanding. Did they also > > > tell you how to use it? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > [Ouch, you got me!] Just kidding, of course, Enrico. Actually, MELE really could do with some more traffic. It's a shame you guys let Angela and her students know what was going on so quickly. We could have had some fun, there (orcish grin). SignatureMark Barratt Budapest >> > > I suspect there was some misunderstanding. Did they also >> > > tell you how to use it? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >students know what was going on so quickly. We could have had >some fun, there (orcish grin). Yup, a blown opportunity. Well, I've had a shitty day doing IELTS Examiner recertification. Chaps? DC > >> > > I suspect there was some misunderstanding. Did they also > >> > > tell you how to use it? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Yup, a blown opportunity. Well, I've had a shitty day doing > IELTS Examiner recertification. Chaps? Sounds complex. Does it involve changing lightbulbs? SignatureMark Barratt Budapest >> > > I suspect there was some misunderstanding. Did they also >> > > tell you how to use it? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >students know what was going on so quickly. We could have had >some fun, there (orcish grin). Right you are, oh you grinning ogre. We could have stayed at the window a bit longer, to wait and see what would happen. But then, having fun of a lady and her pupils wouldn't be very gentlemanlike, would it? [angelic smile] SignatureEnrico C /testing Pimmy/ Reply to: enrico /dot/ c /at\ people \dot\ it -- FREENET By X-Privat - http://www.x-privat.org/infofreenet.php > > But then, having fun of a lady and her pupils wouldn't be very > gentlemanlike, would it? Interestingly, whilst I would use "ladylike", I wouldn't have thought that "gentlemanlike" was a word, preferring "gentlemanly" as the adjective. A quick look at OneLook*, however, shows that it does appear, at least in American dictionaries. *<http://www.onelook.com/> SignatureMark Barratt Budapest >> >> But then, having fun of a lady and her pupils wouldn't be very [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >*<http://www.onelook.com/> I must confess I was in doubt between the two, as they apparently bear the same meaning, then I tossed a coin! SignatureEnrico C /testing Pimmy/ Reply to: enrico /dot/ c /at\ people \dot\ it -- X-Privat "FREE Usenet" - http://www.newsserver.it Dear Enrico C, Django Cat, Mark Barrat, Owain, and friends, It is nice to receive some encouragement, and perhaps a bit of snide prodding. The language course will, as I promised, stay contained. However, if we have any good questions for you ("fresh meat") I will be sure to throw it out to you dogs. Angela > >> But then, having fun of a lady and her pupils wouldn't be very > >> gentlemanlike, would it? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I must confess I was in doubt between the two, as they apparently bear the > same meaning, then I tossed a coin! >Dear Enrico C, Django Cat, Mark Barrat, Owain, and friends, >It is nice to receive some encouragement, and perhaps a bit of snide >prodding. The language course will, as I promised, stay contained. However, >if we have any good questions for you ("fresh meat") I will be sure to throw >it out to you dogs. >Angela Good on ya darlin. Now learn what top posting is and piss off. DC >Dear Enrico C, Django Cat, Mark Barrat, Owain, and friends, >It is nice to receive some encouragement, and perhaps a bit of snide >prodding. The language course will, as I promised, stay contained. However, >if we have any good questions for you ("fresh meat") I will be sure to throw >it out to you dogs. >Angela Great! :-) SignatureEnrico C /testing Pimmy/ Reply to: enrico /dot/ c /at\ people \dot\ it -- GIGAMAIL By X-Privat - http://www.x-privat.org/gigamail.php |
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