"out of" means "because of"

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hadeshuang - 25 Nov 2004 16:31 GMT

I am surprised to find that "out of" has the meaning same as "because
of". See the sentence:

They joined the orgnization out of interest.

It equals:

They joined the orgnization because of interest.

As "out of" also means "lacking of"(its ordinary meaning actually). So
why does it mean "because of"? And how could I distinguish them?

TIA.

With best regards

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John Ings - 25 Nov 2004 17:08 GMT

>I am surprised to find that "out of" has the meaning same as "because
>of". See the sentence:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>As "out of" also means "lacking of"(its ordinary meaning actually). So
>why does it mean "because of"? And how could I distinguish them?

There are some English words that have many meanings, and you can only
discover which meaning is intended from context. My dictionary for
instance lists no less than 76 meanings for the word "out".

Meaning number 29 has the following sub-categories:
29.    out of,
    a. not within: out of the house.
    b. beyond the reach of: The boat's passengers had sailed out
. of hearing.
    c. not in a condition of: out of danger.
    d. so as to deprive or be deprived of.
    e. from within or among: Take the jokers out of the pack.
    f. because of; owing to: out of loyalty.
    g. foaled by (a dam): Grey Dancer out of Lady Grey.

So the meaning you refer to would be number 29f!

Other English words that present similar multiple meanings are
take- 97 meanings
up- 93 meanings
down- 51 meanings
put- 47 meanings

It sometimes amazes me that I have in the course of a lifetime learned
all these meanings and have no problem with them. I can certainly see
why it would bewilder and confuse folks learning the language.

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Mark Barratt - 25 Nov 2004 17:55 GMT

> There are some English words that have many meanings, and you
> can only discover which meaning is intended from context. My
> dictionary for instance lists no less than 76 meanings for the
> word "out". <...snip>

IANL (I am not a lexicographer) but I doubt whether even 76
"meanings" is exhaustive. As I've written in a parallel post, I
think trying to define the common prepositions is futile. There's
a sense in which you can say that, out of context, they're devoid
of meaning. Had I been the lexicographer, I think I might have
restricted myself to saying just "Out - preposition." and saved
the resulting space for more useful things.

> Other English words that present similar multiple meanings are
> take- 97 meanings
> up- 93 meanings
> down- 51 meanings
> put- 47 meanings

For the prepositions "up" and "down", see "out". "Take" and "put"
have nothing like this number of meanings, unless you choose to
include phrasal verbs, which in my dictionary would have their
own headings. If "take part" is listed under the heading "take",
then shouldn't "partake" be, too?

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Mark Barratt
Budapest
www.geocities.com/nyelvmark

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GFCARRERA - 26 Nov 2004 18:46 GMT

>Subject: Re: "out of" means "because of"
>From: John Ings

>It sometimes amazes me that I have in the course of a lifetime learned
>all these meanings and have no problem with them. I can certainly see
>why it would bewilder and confuse folks learning the language.

I didn't start speaking English until my early teens and I think "out of" is
not that difficult to figure out. When something comes "out of" something it
means it originates from somthing. It's a pretty intuitive expression.

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John Ings - 26 Nov 2004 19:12 GMT

>>It sometimes amazes me that I have in the course of a lifetime learned
>>all these meanings and have no problem with them. I can certainly see
>>why it would bewilder and confuse folks learning the language.
>
>I didn't start speaking English until my early teens and I think "out of" is
>not that difficult to figure out.

I was referring to words like 'out'. For instance "figure out".

>When something comes "out of" something it
>means it originates from somthing. It's a pretty intuitive expression.

>>d. so as to deprive or be deprived of.

Where's the 'originates from' in that usage?
"We're all out of ammunition!"
"I'm out of ideas!"

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Mark Barratt - 25 Nov 2004 17:30 GMT

> I am surprised to find that "out of" has the meaning same as
> "because of". See the sentence:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> They joined the orgnization because of interest.

That's about right - "because they were interested" is better,
because it tells us whose was was the interest.

> As "out of" also means "lacking of"(its ordinary meaning
> actually).

No, if there's such a thing as an "ordinary meaning" of a
preposition, then I would say that "out" means "coming from the
inside of". It conveys movement away from an origin, or a cause.

- He came out of the house.
- Arsenal were knocked out of the championship.
- I need to think this out.
- Your orders will be carried out.

Of course, it has lots of other uses too, some of them having no
apparent relationship with the definition I just gave.

Trying to define (or translate) a common preposition out of
context is a pretty futile exercise, generally. If forced to it,
however, I would say that your first example is closer to the
"ordinary meaning" of 'out' than the second:

They joined (the organization) out of interest
= their motive for joining came from (out of) their interest.

"Out" in the sense "We're out of gas", or "The money has run out"
doesn't feel to me to be the primary meaning.

> So why does it mean "because of"? And how could I distinguish
> them?

This question shares an answer with that classic question:
"Excuse me, can you tell me how to get to Carnegie hall?"

Answer: "Buddy, ya gotta practise".

Signature

Mark Barratt
Budapest
www.geocities.com/nyelvmark

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Martin Phipps - 29 Nov 2004 05:42 GMT

> I am surprised to find that "out of" has the meaning same as "because
> of". See the sentence:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> As "out of" also means "lacking of"(its ordinary meaning actually). So
> why does it mean "because of"? And how could I distinguish them?

As somebody else pointed out, "They joined the orgnization because of
interest." is not a good sentence so "out of" cannot be simply
replaced by "because of". "out of" needs to be replaced with "because
they were --ed" or "as a result of their".

Besides, "out of" only refers to results, not reasons. You cannot say
"I like my girlfriend out of her beautiful tanned skin." The latter
sentence simply doesn't make sense so "out of" and "because of" don't
mean the same thing.

See?

Martin

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Discussion Groups / ESL Teaching / November 2004

"out of" means "because of"