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Discussion Groups / ESL Teaching / January 2005subject form and object form of pronouns.
I got confused with the usage of subject form and object form of pronouns. 1) John hoped the passenger would be Mary and indeed it was she. In my opinion, "it" refers to "the passenger" and let me complete the sentence after "and": the passenger was she. Ok, suppose we are talking about a souvenir picture, we often said: "Look! the boy standing on the table was me. And that's him." Therefore, as the sentence structure is almost the same, why we use she here instead of her? (Subject form instead of object form) 2) On the other hand, I know when we are confirming our identity on the phone, we often use subject form. e.g. --- I wish to speak to Mary. --- This is she. 3) After reading the following sentences in a grammar book. I got confused and frustrated thoroughly. I thought it was she. I thought it to be her. I was taken to be she. They took me to be her. My God! Could anybody save me at Christmas? Happy holidays! Huang Hello Huang, The answer is simple. You would be better using 'her', not 'she', in all your examples. However 'she' is allowed where referring to subject with verb 'to be'. Thus you can say either 'It is her' or 'it is she'. The former is much more common, but "it's her" is most common. Similarly you can say 'It is me' or 'It is I'. The latter sounds rather biblical - i.e. it is what was used in the bible. And you can say 'it is him' or 'it is he'. The latter now sounds bizarre to my ear, though technically correct; and your example - "that's he" - just sounds totally wrong to me. But "that's she" sounds equally wrong. BTW, we still stick to subject form in, for example: "He, she and I went fishing", or even in "It was he, she and I who went fishing". Cheers from Chiswick, John >I got confused with the usage of subject form and object form of > pronouns. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Huang Thank you, John. I think I should throw away that hidebound grammar book. Best Regards, Huang > [snip] > > 3) After reading the following sentences in a grammar book. I got > confused and frustrated thoroughly. Whether we use a subject pronoun or an object pronoun in a sentence depends on the function of the pronoun within the sentence. 1. We use a subject pronoun when the pronoun is the subject of a verb or when the pronoun refers to the subject or completes the meaning of the subject. 2. We use an object pronoun when the pronoun is the direct object of a verb, the indirect object of a verb, or the object of a preposition. We also use an object pronoun when the pronoun refers to the direct object or completes the meaning of the direct object. > I thought it was she. The above sentence is correct. The subject pronoun "she" completes the meaning of the subject "it"; the subject pronoun "she" is used with the verb "was", the past form of the linking verb "be". The noun clause "it was she" is the direct object of the verb "thought". > I thought it to be > her. The above sentence is correct. The expression "to be her" completes the meaning of the direct object "it"; the object pronoun "her" is used with the infinitive "to be". > I was taken to be she. The above sentence is correct. The expression "to be she" completes the meaning of the subject "I"; the subject pronoun "she" is used with the infinitive "to be". > They took me to be her. The above sentence is correct. The expression "to be her" completes the meaning of the direct object "me"; the object pronoun "her" is used with the infinitive "to be".  SignatureMary Ng >>[snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > We also use an object pronoun when the pronoun refers to the direct > object or completes the meaning of the direct object. I'm afraid natural idiomatic English doesn't follow these rules, e.g. "Who's there?" - "It's me". >> I thought it was she. > > The above sentence is correct. However, it sounds very old-fashioned. "I thought it was her" is the usual form. <snip> >> I was taken to be she. > > The above sentence is correct. I have never ever heard this form being used. It sounds terribly unnatural and forced to me. More idiomatic would be "People thought I was her." - or "People mistook me for her." Regards, Einde O'Callaghan >>>[snip] >>> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Regards, Einde O'Callaghan I was commenting on the correctness of the sentences. The ones using the subject form may sound old-fashioned and unnatural, but they are correct and used in formal writing; the object form is used in informal contexts. SignatureMary Ng >>>>[snip] >>>> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > correct and used in formal writing; the object form is used in > informal contexts. Not quite. The object form is often used today in quite formal situations. Use of the subject form often sounds comically pedantic - to my ear it rarely sounds natural. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan (native speaker and experienced teacher of English) |
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