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Discussion Groups / British English / December 2003the fiddle and the violin
Hello! Could you help me? Please tell me what's the difference between the fiddle and the violin? Thank you. > Hello! > > Could you help me? Please tell me what's the difference between the fiddle > and the violin? It's a "violin" when you play classical music on it, and a "fiddle" when you play country music or traditional folk music on it. Same instrument, but I believe there are certain practices like bowing techniques that differ.  SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >>Hello! >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > but I believe there are certain practices like bowing techniques that > differ. A friend of mine who is technical director fort he theatres of a nearby college, recently told me he was on his way to get the theater set up for a fiddler. When I expressed surprise that he would refer to Midori as a "fiddler", he said "Gotta keep these fiddlers in their place". SignatureFrances Kemmish Production Manager East Coast Youth Ballet www.byramartscenter.com > A friend of mine who is technical director fort he theatres of a nearby > college, recently told me he was on his way to get the theater set up > for a fiddler. When I expressed surprise that he would refer to Midori > as a "fiddler", he said "Gotta keep these fiddlers in their place". It could be a matter of respect. It would be interesting to know if he would refer to somebody of the stature of Menuhin, Oistrakh, or Kreisler, for example, in the same way. Rod. >> A friend of mine who is technical director fort he theatres of a >> nearby college, recently told me he was on his way to get the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > would refer to somebody of the stature of Menuhin, Oistrakh, or > Kreisler, for example, in the same way. See my earlier post, and perhaps read "Fiddler's moll: life with Yehudi" by his wife Diana. Also Itzhak Perlman has produced albums called "In the fiddler's house" and "Live in the fiddler's house". SignatureMike Stevens, narrowboat Felis Catus II Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk No man is an island. So is Man. >> Hello! >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >but I believe there are certain practices like bowing techniques that >differ. Mike Stevens' explanation is well worth reading. SignatureCharles Riggs Email address: chriggs¦at¦eircom¦dot¦net In our last episode, <brlev4$s0d$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>, the lovely and talented Timur Valois broadcast on alt.usage.english: > Hello! > Could you help me? Please tell me what's the difference between the fiddle > and the violin? The style with which it is played. The instruments are one and the same. SignatureLars Eighner -finger for geek code- eighner@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/ Love is a state in which a man sees things most decidedly as they are not. --Friedrich Nietzsche > In our last episode, > <brlev4$s0d$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > The style with which it is played. The instruments are one and the same. Yeah, I especially like bluegrass played on an Amati. So one possible difference between a fiddle and a violin is several thousand to several million dollars. I ain't lyin' 'bout that -- Mary Katherine van Osdale is playing a Strad that the Frist Foundation has purchased and is loaning her. Can't find the link, but I think a few megabucks. I also recall hearing about limited partnership-like syndicates being formed to invest in them. Boggles the mind, investment grade violins. And they have to get played, otherwise they dry out and lose value. So part of the syndicate leader's job is to find an appropriate violinist to play the investment. Jon Miller >>In our last episode, >><brlev4$s0d$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Osdale is playing a Strad that the Frist Foundation has purchased and is > loaning her. Itzhak Perlman provides a fine counterexample to all these classical/folk and thousands/millions distinction. He frequently referred to his Strad as a fiddle. He is not the only classical violinist playing a very pricey instrument not to obey your (false) distinctions. SignatureMartin Ambuhl > Itzhak Perlman provides a fine counterexample to all these classical/folk > and thousands/millions distinction. He frequently referred to his Strad as > a fiddle. He is not the only classical violinist playing a very pricey > instrument not to obey your (false) distinctions. If you're Itzhak Perlman, you're allowed to call it what you like. :-) rod. > >>In our last episode, > >><brlev4$s0d$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > a fiddle. He is not the only classical violinist playing a very pricey > instrument not to obey your (false) distinctions. I don't think that the distinction is false, so much as not universally or consistently applied. But it works just fine in the vast majority of cases. (I also wonder if Perlman were not engaging in a bit of self-deprecating violinist humor.) Richard R. Hershberger >> Itzhak Perlman provides a fine counterexample to all these classical/folk >> and thousands/millions distinction. He frequently referred to his Strad as [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >vast majority of cases. (I also wonder if Perlman were not engaging >in a bit of self-deprecating violinist humor.) It's pretty normal, at least on this side of the Atlantic (UK) I know many classical violinists who refer to their instruments as fiddles, and themselves as fiddlers. Yes, it's probably a bit self-deprecating - you wouldn't see it printed in a concert programme. I was told as a young woman (and fiddler) that "fiddle" could be used to refer to any instrument of the family, so a double bass is just a big fiddle. But I think this usage has gone out. The family is however often known as the fiddle family (distinguishing from, e.g. the viol family). Katy On 18 Dec 2003, K. Edgcombe wrote >>> Itzhak Perlman provides a fine counterexample to all these >>> classical/folk and thousands/millions distinction. He >>> frequently referred to his Strad as a fiddle. He is not the >>> only classical violinist playing a very pricey instrument not to >>> obey your (false) distinctions. >> I don't think that the distinction is false, so much as not >> universally or consistently applied. But it works just fine in >> the vast majority of cases. (I also wonder if Perlman were not >> engaging in a bit of self-deprecating violinist humor.) > It's pretty normal, at least on this side of the Atlantic (UK) I > know many classical violinists who refer to their instruments as > fiddles, and themselves as fiddlers. Yes, it's probably a bit > self-deprecating - you wouldn't see it printed in a concert > programme. Isn't there something similar in piano circles? I seem to recall hearing -- many years ago -- a well-known pianist who referred to himself as a "piano player". (I can't recall who it was, though; Rubenstein, perhaps?) SignatureCheers, Harvey Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs) > It's pretty normal, at least on this side of the Atlantic (UK) I know many > classical violinists who refer to their instruments as fiddles, and themselves [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > think this usage has gone out. The family is however often known as the fiddle > family (distinguishing from, e.g. the viol family). Calling the double bass the "bass fiddle" survived for a long time in the US at least. I think today it must be rather uncommon, though. rfontana@alumni.wesleyan.edu spake thus: > > It's pretty normal, at least on this side of the Atlantic (UK) I know many > > classical violinists who refer to their instruments as fiddles, and themselves [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Calling the double bass the "bass fiddle" survived for a long time in the > US at least. I think today it must be rather uncommon, though. Jack Lemmon in "Some Like It Hot" calls it his "Bull Fiddle". SignatureDavid ===== >> It's pretty normal, at least on this side of the Atlantic (UK) I >> know many classical violinists who refer to their instruments as [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Calling the double bass the "bass fiddle" survived for a long time in > the US at least. I think today it must be rather uncommon, though. Bull? m. > In our last episode, > <brlev4$s0d$1@gavrilo.mtu.ru>, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > The style with which it is played. The instruments are one and the same. They're often set up differently: a fiddle set up for folk, bluegrass, etc. is likely to be set up with steel strings for more strident tone and a flattened bridge for playing double and triple stops. But with some exceptions in the outer ranges of violin-shaped entities, you're right, they're the same instrument. SignatureChris Green > Hello! > > Could you help me? Please tell me what's the difference between the > fiddle and the violin? At one level, the difference is simply linguistic - "fiddle" is a slang word for the violin (or any member of the violin family, hence "bass fiddle"). Lady Menuhin (sp?), wife of the world-famous violinist, used to refer to herself as a "fiddler's moll" At another level, I once heard a respected folk fiddler explain the difference between the (particularly Irish) folk fiddle and the classical violin, which involves both the structure of the instrument and the way it is held in performance. He claimed that the classical violin has a more arched bridge, and its performance technique depends on movement of the left hand up and down the strings, so it is supported under the player's chin so as to leave the left hand free to move. The (Irish) folk fiddle has a flatter bridge, to facilitate "double stopping" or playing more than one string at once, and a technique involving a lot less movement of the left hand, so it is supported by the left hand rather than the chin, and often rested on the performer's upper arm. This creates a more comfortable position for the same double stopping. SignatureMike Stevens, narrowboat Felis Catus II Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk No man is an island. So is Man. > > Hello! > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > upper arm. This creates a more comfortable position for the same double > stopping. Not to mention chewing, talking, and other activities impossible with the instrument clapped tightly under the chin. During my violin lessons, one of the exercises was to hold the violin under the chin (resting on the clavicle, and lucky if you had a little cushion), while turning the page of the score with the fingering hand. The instructor occasionally checked to see that one wasn't clenching the violin with the hand by plucking the instrument away from the fingers. The violin "rested" on the heel of the palm and thumb, to enable controlled slides for scales, etc, and thus could not be grasped. I felt a bit persecuted, at times, because I had small hands and a skinny collarbone. Nothing worked to help my short fingers find the right stops. I always ever after envied fiddlers, for they seemed to pick up their art naturally, and never seemed to require learning to read music. They played ( I thought), much as guitar players play: using chords, and could pick up tunes by "playing by ear". [snip] >> At another level, I once heard a respected folk fiddler explain the >> difference between the (particularly Irish) folk fiddle and the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Not to mention chewing, talking, and other activities impossible with the >instrument clapped tightly under the chin. Such as singing. One of the winners of the recent BBC Young Folk Awards describes herself as a "fiddle singer"; this is apparently an established tradition in English folk music. I wouldn't have thought it possible, and much regreted only being able to hear it on the radio. It certainly didn't sound as if her chin was constrained in any way. SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com". >[snip] > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >radio. It certainly didn't sound as if her chin was constrained in any >way. Ah. Her performance is online: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/r2music/folk/youngfolkawards/audio.shtml Click on "Jackie Oates". SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com". >> Hello! >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "bass fiddle"). Lady Menuhin (sp?), wife of the world-famous > violinist, used to refer to herself as a "fiddler's moll" The name fiddle actually derives from an older family of instruments that were replaced by the violin family in the 16th century. I believe the main difference was that a fiddle was carved from solid wood. The techniques and playing positions transferred to the new instruments along with the name. > Could you help me? Please tell me what's the difference between the fiddle > and the violin? A violin has strings, and a fiddle has strangs. SignatureStefano http://www.steve-and-pattie.com/esperantujo Master of the universe and supreme ruler of all living beings (and I have permission from my wife to be so). - 16 Dec 2003 11:05 GMT > Could you help me? Please tell me what's the difference between the fiddle > and the violin? The price. |
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