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Discussion Groups / British English / December 2003meaning of "cunning"
Is the meaning of the word "cunning" different in England or the U.S.?  SignatureJ.Vassiliou >Is the meaning of the word "cunning" different in England or the U.S.? Yes, very much so. In UK English, cunning means clever, knowing - but with a pejorative aspect. "Cunning like the fox" is the best example. In US English, it's a compliment - "What a cunning little hat!" In much the same way, "cute" took on the same meaning in the US, whereas its original sense (acute) was sharp, aware, intelligent. SignatureMolly Mockford I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be! (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) >>Is the meaning of the word "cunning" different in England or the U.S.? > >Yes, very much so. In UK English, cunning means clever, knowing - but >with a pejorative aspect. "Cunning like the fox" is the best example. >In US English, it's a compliment - "What a cunning little hat!" FWIW, historically cunning just meant wise. The local herbalist/witch/quack was known as a cunning woman or man. As I recall, it was a cunning woman who was jealous of a rival that kicked off the great East Anglian witch hunts of the C17th. It does also retain a less pejorative sense in UK English as "ingenious"- a cunning plan or, erm, stunt. I assume it has some etymological link to "ken" (as well as "can") but this isn't clear in my dictionaries. I wonder if UK and US audiences interpret the Janacek opera title "The Cunning Little Vixen" in different ways. SignaturePhil C. | It does also retain a less pejorative sense in UK English as | "ingenious"- a cunning plan or, erm, stunt. I assume it has some | etymological link to "ken" (as well as "can") but this isn't clear in | my dictionaries. I always assumed that the etymological link was to "c.nt" which makes an odd sort of sense. This would account for the pejorative element. Dave F >It does also retain a less pejorative sense in UK English as >"ingenious"- a cunning plan or, erm, stunt. I assume it has some >etymological link to "ken" (as well as "can") but this isn't clear in >my dictionaries. As a Scot, I had always assumed cunning=kenning, although bearing different baggage. >I wonder if UK and US audiences interpret the Janacek opera title "The >Cunning Little Vixen" in different ways. Never thought of that! :-) SignatureMolly Mockford I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be! (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) > >It does also retain a less pejorative sense in UK English as > >"ingenious"- a cunning plan or, erm, stunt. I assume it has some [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > As a Scot, I had always assumed cunning=kenning, although bearing > different baggage. OED2 agrees with you, for what it is worth. An old meaning of 'can' was 'know', and it has the same etymological derivation as 'ken'. Giles. >Is the meaning of the word "cunning" different in England or the U.S.? Molly has answered your question, so I'll merely point out that we would say "England and the US", rather than "England or the US". SignatureJohn Hall "Banking was conceived in iniquity and born in sin" Sir Josiah Stamp, a former president of the Bank of England > Molly has answered your question, so I'll merely point out that we would > say "England and the US", rather than "England or the US". Thank you all for your answers, I couldn't hope for more. John thanks for pointing that out for me; in fact I thought there was something wrong with it as I was writing it. Happy Holidays to everyone. SignatureJ.Vassiliou >Happy Holidays to everyone. And to you. However, since this is the UK, not the US, we say "Happy Christmas" and "Happy New Year" rather than "Happy Holidays". SignatureMolly Mockford I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be! (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) > >Happy Holidays to everyone. > And to you. However, since this is the UK, not the US, we say "Happy > Christmas" and "Happy New Year" rather than "Happy Holidays". Surely it's "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year"? Signaturehttp://www.dacha.freeuk.com/ada/08-0.htm Since giving birth to our fifty-seventh child, my wife has gone off connubial relations. >> And to you. However, since this is the UK, not the US, we say "Happy >> Christmas" and "Happy New Year" rather than "Happy Holidays". > >Surely it's "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year"? I think both "Happy Christmas" and "Merry Christmas" are usual. However, if one says "Merry New Year" instead of "Happy New Year", one is assumed to be making jocular reference to the about of drink to be consumed. SignatureMolly Mockford I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be! (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) > >> And to you. However, since this is the UK, not the US, we say > >> "Happy Christmas" and "Happy New Year" rather than "Happy > >> Holidays". > > > >Surely it's "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year"? > I think both "Happy Christmas" and "Merry Christmas" are usual. > However, if one says "Merry New Year" instead of "Happy New Year", > one is assumed to be making jocular reference to the > about of drink to be consumed. ^^^^^ Or the about already consumed ?:-) Hope you're having a good time! Signaturehttp://www.dacha.freeuk.com/yds/9rc-0.htm The Yorkshire Dialect Society: Records & Cassetes >> However, if one says "Merry New Year" instead of "Happy New Year", >> one is assumed to be making jocular reference to the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Hope you're having a good time! Only water so far today, although I'm about to pour myself a gin'n'tonic. Tanqueray gin, my Christmas treat. Yesterday I had some champagne (3 bottles between 4 of us) and a very nice bottle of Pouilly Fouisse, so today I'm cooling it slightly. SignatureMolly Mockford I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be! (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) > However, > if one says "Merry New Year" instead of "Happy New Year", one is assumed > to be making jocular reference to the about of drink to be consumed. And, perhaps, to the verbal confusion which is likely to ensue, especialy amount the about of drink involved. -- Mike Stevens, narrowboat Felis Catus II web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk "Million-to-one chances come up nine times out of ten." (Terry Pratchett) >>> And to you. However, since this is the UK, not the US, we say "Happy >>> Christmas" and "Happy New Year" rather than "Happy Holidays". >> Surely it's "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year"? > I think both "Happy Christmas" and "Merry Christmas" are usual. However, > if one says "Merry New Year" instead of "Happy New Year", one is assumed > to be making jocular reference to the about of drink to be consumed. My understanding is that in the US (at least until political correctness caused "happy holidays" to be invented) it has to be "Merry Christmas" but in the UK "Happy Christmas" is fine. Indeed, "Merry Christmas" has always struck me as an Americanism, though Dickens used it, didn't he, so it can't always have been. Matthew Huntbach > > >Happy Holidays to everyone. > > > And to you. However, since this is the UK, not the US, we say "Happy > > Christmas" and "Happy New Year" rather than "Happy Holidays". > > Surely it's "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year"? Or else the other way about, I'm never sure. Are you? (as for camels). -- Mike Stevens, narrowboat Felis Catus II web site www.mike-stevens.co.yk Old grammarians never die, they simply parse away. |
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