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Discussion Groups / British English / October 2004When does one say 'one'?
Hallo, something I still don't understand in (british) English is the usage of 'one'. In old movies, or speeches by (older) people, it is normally used in the way 'one does', 'one knows' etc. However, I've also heard it in mock Queen's speeches or when some person was to be portrayed as posh. So I'm a bit confused; is it normal if one uses one? Does it sound - to a native speaker - strange, weird or normal? In German, the equivalent to this usage of 'one' is 'you', and I'm always tempted to use this instead of 'one' as I feel very uncertain about it, and I've also heard native speakers using 'you' instead of 'one'. Now, I would appreciate any help on this! Best wishes, Gunter > Hallo, > > something I still don't understand in (british) English is the usage of > 'one'. In old movies, or speeches by (older) people, it is normally used > in the way 'one does', 'one knows' etc. Yes, it's less common than it used to be, which is why you mainly hear older people use it. It's the impersonal pronoun, so "how does one do this?" means the same as "how is this done?", whereas using "you", "he" or "I" is referring to a specific person. > However, I've also heard it in mock Queen's speeches or when some person > was to be portrayed as posh. That is because of the perception of posh people using "one" in an affected way as a replacement for "I" or "you": "One finds those sort of events SUCH a bore, doesn't one?" Sounds a bit 1920s to me. > So I'm a bit confused; is it normal if one uses one? Does it sound - to > a native speaker - strange, weird or normal? My first example would sound normal, but slightly formal. From someone who is known for speaking in a precise manner it wouldn't sound out of place, but it is not colloquial. Most people say "you" where "one" would strictly be correct: "How do you get from London to Birmingham?" "You drive up the M40." Notice how both people use "you", but are not referring to anyone in particular. Compare "How do *you* get from London to Birmingham?" "*I* go up the M1 and M6, but most people would use the M40." > In German, the equivalent to this usage of 'one' is 'you', and I'm > always tempted to use this instead of 'one' as I feel very uncertain > about it, and I've also heard native speakers using 'you' instead of > 'one'. Interesting. I always considered the German equivalent of "one" to be "man": "Wie schreibt man das?" - "How does one spell that?". Although most people nowadays would say "How do you spell that?", or sometimes "How do I spell that?" Is "man" still in common use in German? > Now, I would appreciate any help on this! > > Best wishes, > > Gunter Hope this helps! mfg, Tony  SignatureTony Mountifield Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org >> In German, the equivalent to this usage of 'one' is 'you', and I'm >> always tempted to use this instead of 'one' as I feel very uncertain >> about it, and I've also heard native speakers using 'you' instead of >> 'one'. > Interesting. I always considered the German equivalent of "one" to be > "man": "Wie schreibt man das?" - "How does one spell that?". Although > most people nowadays would say "How do you spell that?", or sometimes > "How do I spell that?" Is "man" still in common use in German? Sorry - this was my mistake for being a bit imprecise. Of course 'man' is the right word in most cases in German, but 'Du' is sometimes used in certain circumstances. AFAIK, it is rather colloquial. I didn't notice it before I came here; but in the UK I noticed a lot of Germans (including myself) using 'you' instead of 'one' and realised that this is a very literal translation from German. > Hope this helps! It does! Best wishes, Gunter <snip> > In German, the equivalent to this usage of 'one' is 'you', and I'm > always tempted to use this instead of 'one' as I feel very uncertain > about it, and I've also heard native speakers using 'you' instead of > 'one'. In fact, the German equivalent of "one" is "man" - only in very very casual (and anglicised) use have I ever heard "du" used in this sense. To my ear using "one" sounds quite formal, but it's certainly not incorrect. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan (German resident) >> In German, the equivalent to this usage of 'one' is 'you', and I'm >> always tempted to use this instead of 'one' as I feel very uncertain >> about it, and I've also heard native speakers using 'you' instead of >> 'one'. > In fact, the German equivalent of "one" is "man" - only in very very > casual (and anglicised) use have I ever heard "du" used in this sense. I've heard it several times and never thought of it as anglicised - is it really? As I've written before, I thought it was a typical Germanism in English using the 'you'. > Regards, Einde O'Callaghan (German resident) Where about? Best wishes, Gunter >>>In German, the equivalent to this usage of 'one' is 'you', and I'm >>>always tempted to use this instead of 'one' as I feel very uncertain [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Where about? Saxony Regards, Einde O'Callaghan >> Where about? > Saxony That's nice - I have spent almost eight years of my live in Leipzig! Best wishes, Gunter > something I still don't understand in (british) English is the usage > of 'one'. In old movies, or speeches by (older) people, it is > normally used in the way 'one does', 'one knows' etc. > > However, I've also heard it in mock Queen's speeches or when some > person was to be portrayed as posh. It's a joke related to the Royal "We" (traditionally, the monarch never says "I", always "We") - pretentious members of the royal family have been caught saying "one" instead of "I". SignatureJohn Briggs > It's a joke related to the Royal "We" (traditionally, the monarch never says > "I", always "We") But when do they do so? I've listened to some recordings of speeches delivered by the Queen and she always said "I", or "Prince Philip/the Duke of Edinburgh and I". P.S. In fact, I watched "Shakespeare in Love", where Queen Elizabeth I/Judi Dench says, for instance, "I know who I am", "They're not acted for you, they're acted for me". Now, is that film really inaccurate or does/did the Queen/King use either "I" or "we" depending on the context? One would be grateful if someone could shed some light on the matter. (kidding, ça va sans dire) Bye, FB Signature"Is this Miss Prism a female of repellent aspect, remotely connected with education?". "She is the most cultivated of ladies, and the very picture of respectability". "It is obviously the same person". ("The Importance of Being Earnest", Oscar Wilde) FB <fam.balducciNOSPAM@tin.it>wrote<1jk9a9ozwpsvn$.163nypg7c983a$.dlg@40tude.net> > > It's a joke related to the Royal "We" (traditionally, the monarch never says > > "I", always "We") [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > grateful if someone could shed some light on the matter. (kidding, ça va > sans dire) Ol' Lizzy didn't know herself ;) QUOTE http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/elizabeth1.html We certainly think that if God ever direct our hearts to consideration of marriage we shall never accept or choose any absent husband how powerful and wealthy a Prince soever. But that we are not to give you an answer until we have seen your person is so far from the thing itself that we never even considered such a thing. But I have always given both to your brother, who is certainly a most excellent prince and deservedly very dear to us, and also to your ambassador likewise the same answer with scarcely any variation of the words, that we do not conceive in our heart to take a husband, but highly commend this single life, and hope that your Serene Highness will no longer spend time in waiting for us. SignatureEnrico C Private replies to: enrico DOT c AT people DOT it ----------------------------------------- Message sent by Excite Newsgroups. http://www.excite.co.uk/newsgroup >>It's a joke related to the Royal "We" (traditionally, the monarch never says >>"I", always "We") [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > grateful if someone could shed some light on the matter. (kidding, ça va > sans dire) I wouldn't take the dialoge in "Shakespeare in Love" as a guide to how QE1 spoke. I very much doubt whether any modern-day film about Good Queen Bess would use the language of the period - it would sound rather odd to our ears. Some of it would even be fairly incomprehensible because of changes in pronunciation, grammar and vocabulary during the last 400 years. Certainly QE1's accent would have been quite different from that of QE2. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan > I wouldn't take the dialoge in "Shakespeare in Love" as a guide to how > QE1 spoke. Of course. > I very much doubt whether any modern-day film about Good > Queen Bess would use the language of the period - it would sound rather > odd to our ears. Some of it would even be fairly incomprehensible > because of changes in pronunciation, grammar and vocabulary during the > last 400 years. Certainly QE1's accent would have been quite different > from that of QE2. What about QE2? Bye, FB Signature"Is this Miss Prism a female of repellent aspect, remotely connected with education?". "She is the most cultivated of ladies, and the very picture of respectability". "It is obviously the same person". ("The Importance of Being Earnest", Oscar Wilde) > What about QE2? She used to take her cue from Margaret "We are a grandmother" Thatcher. So Her Majesty doesn't say "we" much these days. At 21:07:48 on Sun, 17 Oct 2004, Luke <lpgmx@f2s.com> wrote in <ckujea$e74$1@news.freedom2surf.net>: >> What about QE2? >She used to take her cue from Margaret "We are a grandmother" Thatcher. >So Her Majesty doesn't say "we" much these days. I don't think the current $monarch ever said "one" particularly often; however, Princess Anne used to use it heavily; also Prince Charles, albeit to a lesser extent. I don't think I've ever heard Andrew or Edward use it (although I have to confess I don't often get around to chatting to them in the pub). The great benefit of the term (as in the French "on" and the German "man") is to distinguish between the personal and the impersonal in the second person (singular or plural). "Where might you buy shoes?" versus "Where might one buy shoes?", for example, would result in two very different replies. The junior royals, however, tended to use it in the first person: "One doesn't much care for that" - which, as far as I know, has little grammatical validity. The whole purpose of the "royal we" is that it *was* used in the first person, to distinguish between the individual and the role. Queen Victoria's famous "We are not amused" doesn't mean "I don't find that funny"; it means "Because I am a monarch, I can't possibly permit myself to be seen to laugh at - or even approve of - that sort of thing". I expect to be corrected if I am wrong. Hell, that's the only reason I'm in Usenet! SignatureMolly Mockford I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be! (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) At 22:27:49 on Sun, 17 Oct 2004, Molly Mockford <nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote in <GFEvskAVPucBFwea@molly.mockford>: >I don't think the current $monarch ever said "one" particularly often; >however, Princess Anne used to use it heavily; also Prince Charles, >albeit to a lesser extent. I don't think I've ever heard Andrew or >Edward use it (although I have to confess I don't often get around to >chatting to them in the pub). Which reminds me that some years ago I used to write out many a cheque for cash to "The Prince of Wales", and did occasionally wonder what my bank manager made of it. SignatureMolly Mockford I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be! (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) >At 22:27:49 on Sun, 17 Oct 2004, Molly Mockford ><nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >for cash to "The Prince of Wales", and did occasionally wonder what my >bank manager made of it. Preshumably you were not the only pershon to do thish. SignaturePeter Duncanson UK (posting from u.c.l.e) > At 22:27:49 on Sun, 17 Oct 2004, Molly Mockford > <nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > for cash to "The Prince of Wales", and did occasionally wonder what my > bank manager made of it. Perhaps one is lucky that the bank manager didn't call for the men in white coats to haul you away for delusions of grandeur! Thee would not be amused. -- John Mazor "The search for wisdom is asymptotic." "Except for Internet newsgroups, where it is divergent..." -- R J Carpenter >At 21:07:48 on Sun, 17 Oct 2004, Luke <lpgmx@f2s.com> wrote in ><ckujea$e74$1@news.freedom2surf.net>: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Edward use it (although I have to confess I don't often get around to >chatting to them in the pub). I always felt Princess Anne was actually trying to sound less egotistical by avoiding "I". The royal family are expected to uphold the "Queen's English" but perhaps aren't naturally articulate (shall we say) and get a lot of coaching. >The great benefit of the term (as in the French "on" and the German >"man") is to distinguish between the personal and the impersonal in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >first person: "One doesn't much care for that" - which, as far as I >know, has little grammatical validity. The problem with impersonal "one" is that although it sounds fine when used occasionally it can sound rather pompous or contrived (to my ear) when overused. "One shouldn't eat wild fungi" sounds fine but "One shouldn't eat wild fungi unless one is sure that one knows what one is doing" sounds pompous - especially in the pub. I think we instinctively avoid using "one", and rephrase, in any context which would commit us to repeating it too often. >The whole purpose of the "royal we" is that it *was* used in the first >person, to distinguish between the individual and the role. Queen >Victoria's famous "We are not amused" doesn't mean "I don't find that >funny"; it means "Because I am a monarch, I can't possibly permit >myself to be seen to laugh at - or even approve of - that sort of >thing". I'm sure you're right about the "royal we" but did she ever actually say "We are not amused?" And, if so, was she just speaking for the assembled company? There seem to be various accounts e.g. http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Queen-Victoria Thatcher did actually say "We are a grandmother" but I think it was just a slip of the tongue - caught between "I am a grandmother" and "We are grandparents" - which was gleefully seized on by the media. Let's hope she gets the opportunity to prove me wrong by saying "We are the mother of a jailbird". Oh please. We promise to be amused. SignaturePhil C. > Thatcher did actually say "We are a grandmother" but I think it was > just a slip of the tongue - caught between "I am a grandmother" and > "We are grandparents" - which was gleefully seized on by the media. Her excuse for her use of the royal 'we' was that she was speaking on behalf of the Cabinet. She used it increasingly frequently the longer she was in office (see volume 2 of John Campbell's biography: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0712667814). It was "We are a grandmother" that blew her excuse out of the water, hence the glee in the press (and elsewhere). > Let's hope she gets the opportunity to prove me wrong by saying "We > are the mother of a jailbird". Oh please. We promise to be amused. That would be a treat. An unlikely one, but a treat nevertheless. Giles. >> Thatcher did actually say "We are a grandmother" but I think it was >> just a slip of the tongue - caught between "I am a grandmother" and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >a grandmother" that blew her excuse out of the water, hence the glee >in the press (and elsewhere). Maybe but (unaccustomed as I am to defending the Mad Cow) I'm not entirely convinced. It would only blow her excuse out of the water if it were deliberate - which begs the question. If, in general, she hadn't used "we" to speak on behalf of the cabinet and had used "I" instead, she would gleefully have been accused of being imperious. Can political leaders ever win that one? She may be a strange person but I suspect becoming a grandparent had as much unexpected emotional impact on her as it has on the rest of us. (In her case, perhaps more so - having given birth to Mark and Carol, things could only get better, ahem.) Not a situation in which I'd be quick judge people by their exact choice of words. If her choice had been deliberate it would have been very, very stupid. But I might be persuaded by examples of her using a clear royal "we" in other contexts. SignaturePhil C. >> It's a joke related to the Royal "We" (traditionally, the monarch never says >> "I", always "We") > >But when do they do so? I've listened to some recordings of speeches >delivered by the Queen and she always said "I", or "Prince Philip/the Duke >of Edinburgh and I". There are some Statutes (laws) which are written in the form of a personal ordinance by the Queen (or King). In these, she or he, uses the plural forms We, Us, Our, Ourselves, etc. in a singular sense. SignaturePeter Duncanson UK (posting from u.c.l.e) >>> It's a joke related to the Royal "We" (traditionally, the monarch never says >>> "I", always "We") [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > ordinance by the Queen (or King). In these, she or he, uses the plural > forms We, Us, Our, Ourselves, etc. in a singular sense. We are very grateful to everyone of you for your explanations. One is always curious about such things, one can't help it, but then what can one do? Bye, FB Signature"What meaning of this, Mitter Twain?". "I will tell you, Mr Wang, if you can tell me why a man who possesses one of the most brilliant minds of this century can't say his prepositions or articles". (Murder by Death) FB <fam.balducciNOSPAM@tin.it> wrote in message news: > >>But when do they do so? I've listened to some recordings of speeches > >>delivered by the Queen and she always said "I", or "Prince Philip/the Duke > >>of Edinburgh and I". > We are very grateful to everyone of you for your explanations. One is > always curious about such things, one can't help it, but then what can one > do? Referring to oneself in the apparently plural also occurs at the other end of the social spectrum ! For example, "Give us it" occurs in working class speech, meaning "Give me it" (i.e., Give it to me). From my point of view (West Country) I associate this with the Midlands or North of England more than anywhere else. Whether this is dialect or error is another argument I suppose. Neil >FB <fam.balducciNOSPAM@tin.it> wrote in message news: >> >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Midlands or North of England more than anywhere else. Whether this is >dialect or error is another argument I suppose. It was common in Essex when I was a child. I assume it still is e.g "Giss a kiss". I noticed on the news yesterday, BTW, that Boris Johnson reverted to "we" in trying to excuse/justify his actions when insulted and put on the spot by the brother of Ken Bigley. I think he was instinctively using it to diffuse responsibility. SignaturePhil C. > Referring to oneself in the apparently plural also occurs at the other > end of the social spectrum ! For example, "Give us it" occurs in > working class speech And in Sméagol's. Er, we're sorry. Bye, FB SignatureLocked from the inside. That can only mean one thing, and I don't know what it is. (Murder by Death) |
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