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Discussion Groups / British English / October 2004Why "Blue Soldier" and not "Soldier Blue"?
Hi, I am confused by the title of the movie "Blue Soldier". Why not "Soldier Blue"? Is there any difference? Thanks, ciao Alessandro (native italian) > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Alessandro (native italian) I am infact *very* confused. The right title is "Soldier Blue" and I'm asking if there is any difference with "Blue Soldier". Ciao Alessandro >> Hi, >> I am confused by the title of the movie "Blue Soldier". [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I am infact *very* confused. The right title is "Soldier Blue" >and I'm asking if there is any difference with "Blue Soldier". In English an adjective almost always precedes the noun it is qualifying, so the title "Soldier Blue" is presumably trying to make some point through the unusual word order. But I confess to not knowing what the point might be. They may just have thought that the word order would help to fix the title in people's minds.  SignatureJohn Hall "I am not young enough to know everything." Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) >>>Hi, >>> I am confused by the title of the movie "Blue Soldier". [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > what the point might be. They may just have thought that the word order > would help to fix the title in people's minds. Thank you very much, John. Could you make another example of this usage? Ale >>> Hi, >>> I am confused by the title of the movie "Blue Soldier". [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >what the point might be. They may just have thought that the word order >would help to fix the title in people's minds. Given that the film was about the brutality of soldiers and had a thinly veiled Vietnam message, I assumed it was an ironic quote from an old poem or song which had used poetic licence with the word order for reasons of rhythm or rhyme. Perhaps it is. However, "soldier blue" does seem to be an old name for a shade of blue paint (cf. navy blue) http://www.p4a.com/itemsummary/78796.htm Perhaps that was how it became a stock phrase. Americans may know more. SignaturePhil C. (cut) > However, "soldier blue" > does seem to be an old name for a shade of blue paint (cf. navy blue) > > http://www.p4a.com/itemsummary/78796.htm This is interesting, I never thought to it before. Also in italian we have this kind of construction: for instance, "verde acqua" means "a kind of green (verde) which resembles sea water (acqua)" while "acqua verde" simply means "green water". The difference is that in Italian the adjective can precede or follow the noun, although the first use is more "poetic". Ciao Ale >(cut) >> However, "soldier blue" >> does seem to be an old name for a shade of blue paint (cf. navy blue) >> >> http://www.p4a.com/itemsummary/78796.htm In this case 'blue' is a noun, and 'soldier' is being used as an adjective to qualify the noun. >This is interesting, I never thought to it before. Also in >italian we have this kind of construction: for instance, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >The difference is that in Italian the adjective can precede >or follow the noun, although the first use is more "poetic". I have seen the movie but I don't think I really understood the title, Soldier Blue, at the time. It is possible that it has two meanings simultaneously. 1. 'Blue' - the colour of the uniform. 2. 'Blue' - the adjective meaning "dark, depressing, disconsolate, dismal, dispiriting, gloomy, grim" http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn2.0?stage=1&word=blue SignaturePeter Duncanson UK (posting from u.c.l.e) >On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:14:58 +0200, principiante ><principiante@beginne rs.orgwrote [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >In this case 'blue' is a noun, and 'soldier' is being used as an adjective >to qualify the noun. Yes. Do we know that isn't the case in the film title? That's the "joy" of English. >>This is interesting, I never thought to it before. Also in >>italian we have this kind of construction: for instance, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >2. 'Blue' - the adjective meaning "dark, depressing, disconsolate, dismal, >dispiriting, gloomy, grim" It may be relevant that Google hits for "soldier-blue" with either "paint" or "dye" are very peaceful - we find ourselves in gentle worlds of needlecraft and antique restoration etc. Perhaps that's where the the title found its ironic contrast? If so, it was a pretty obscure reference - for UK audiences at least. But then a lot of film titles are obscure. Is there supposed to be any sense in the more recent James Bond titles, for example? Beats me. SignaturePhil C. >I am infact *very* confused. The right title is "Soldier Blue" >and I'm asking if there is any difference with "Blue Soldier". In many countries, blue is the colour of the uniform that sailors wear, so I don't think that could be it. "Blue" is a liquid which is applied to bare external metal on a gun to protect it and stop it from corroding. It makes the gun metal look a very dark blue or black colour. Blue is also slang for a personal conflict, especially a physical or bitter fight. But I think that they meant blue as in unhappy soldier or a sad situation. They were just trying to make the title sound fancy. A search for Biloxi Blues (or Biloxy Blues) reveals a lot of Blues. Here is a truckload of titles and sayings that end with Blue or Blues:\ http://www.funny.co.uk/keywords/funeral-blues-auden.html A poem that uses skies blue http://www.your-poetry.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=41345 Sig: I have a brain the size of a planet. It's not much good to me, however. It's on a different planet. >Hi, > >I am confused by the title of the movie "Blue Soldier". > >Why not "Soldier Blue"? Is there any difference? Which movie are you asking about? There was movie that was released in 1970, called "Soldier Blue". It was an American "Western" starring Donald Pleasence as "Isaac Q. Cumber", and Peter Strauss as "Honus Gent". http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066390/ I can't find a movie called "Blue Soldier". In English the normal order of words is an adjective followed by a noun. The title Soldier Blue has the noun first. I think this is for artistic reasons. SignaturePeter Duncanson UK (posting from u.c.l.e) (cut) > In English the normal order of words is an adjective followed by a noun. > The title Soldier Blue has the noun first. I think this is for artistic > reasons. Thanks for your reply. How would it sound in normal speech? Ale >> Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Cumber", and Peter Strauss as "Honus Gent". > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066390/ It was for many years the finest movie about the Vietnam war. ("Apocalypse Now" was probably the finest movie set in Vietnam - but that was an adaptation of Conrad's "Heart of Darkness".) SignatureJohn Briggs |
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