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Discussion Groups / British English / June 2005New words
New editions of dictionaries tend to be accompanied by a news handout listing lots of colourful new words that are claimed to have entered the language This gets lots of free publicity. The new Collins seems to have taken the art to the extreme - e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4074760.stm A search on Google news for Collins-Dictionary produces many more reports with more of the "new words". It's something to do with our vibrant cuture, apparently. Beyond the obvious ones such as chav and asbo, how many of these words can actually claim to be part of the language now - let alone in six months time? I've never heard of most of them.  SignaturePhil C. <snip> >A search on Google news for Collins-Dictionary produces many more >reports with more of the "new words". It's something to do with our >vibrant cuture, apparently. Beyond the obvious ones such as chav and >asbo, how many of these words can actually claim to be part of the >language now - let alone in six months time? I've never heard of most >of them. I've nevee heard of "asbo". What does it mean? SignatureJohn Hall "Home is heaven and orgies are vile, But you *need* an orgy, once in a while." Ogden Nash (1902-1971) ><snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >I've nevee heard of "asbo". What does it mean? Antisocial Behaviour Order. It's used to put geographical restrictions on chavs in hoodies and suchlike. As far as I know it hasn't yet been applied to retrosexuals committing crimes against fashion in town centres. Or perhaps they just haven't caught me yet. SignaturePhil C. "Phil C." <philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote... > ><snip> > >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > applied to retrosexuals committing crimes against fashion in town > centres. Or perhaps they just haven't caught me yet. Apparently the Gubbmint is now proposing to extend the concept to bad behaviour triggered by alcohol misuse; the LibDem MP Lembit Öpik today coined "Boozebos" for these. Matti >"Phil C." <philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote... >> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >behaviour triggered by alcohol misuse; the LibDem MP Lembit Öpik today >coined "Boozebos" for these. I'm now trying to think of something that would give "gazebo" as its acronym. SignatureJohn Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?" "Well, actually, they're American." "So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?" Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island" >>"Phil C." <philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote... >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I'm now trying to think of something that would give "gazebo" as its > acronym. Well I suppose people who eat inordinate quantities of beans could be given gassy-bos - and I suppose if they smelled like Camping Gaz the orders could be called Gazebos, at a stretch. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan >> I'm now trying to think of something that would give "gazebo" as its >> acronym. > >Well I suppose people who eat inordinate quantities of beans could be >given gassy-bos - and I suppose if they smelled like Camping Gaz the >orders could be called Gazebos, at a stretch. If they sniffed petrol they could be called petrosexuals. SignaturePhil C. >>"Phil C." <philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote... >>> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I'm now trying to think of something that would give "gazebo" as its >acronym. Peeping Tomery. SignatureRobin > >Apparently the Gubbmint is now proposing to extend the concept to > >bad behaviour triggered by alcohol misuse; the LibDem MP Lembit > >Öpik today coined "Boozebos" for these. > I'm now trying to think of something that would give "gazebo" as its > acronym. Not an acronym but a peeping tom order would fit the bill. Signaturehttp://www.dacha.freeuk.com/ -- Dacha's Digital Domicile http://www.grough.freeuk.com/j04.htm -- Scenes Be Leaving >>"Phil C." <philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote... >>> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I'm now trying to think of something that would give "gazebo" as its >acronym. Peeping Tom might earn one of those. SignaturePeter Duncanson UK (posting from u.c.l.e) > >I'm now trying to think of something that would give "gazebo" as its > >acronym. > Peeping Tom might earn one of those. Or even three (so far). Signaturehttp://www.dacha.freeuk.com/colour/3c-0.htm Speak soft of Monday's Silvern Moon, Whilst watching silvern Fish glide by; >> >I'm now trying to think of something that would give "gazebo" as its >> >acronym. > >> Peeping Tom might earn one of those. > >Or even three (so far). Lady Godiva seems to have escaped punishment for her scandalous behaviour -- riding naked on a horse through the streets of Coventry. Of course if she were to try the same stunt today wearing a hoody to cover her nakedness she'd be in deep trouble. SignaturePeter Duncanson UK (posting from u.c.l.e) >>> >I'm now trying to think of something that would give "gazebo" as its >>> >acronym. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Lady Godiva seems to have escaped punishment for her scandalous behaviour -- >riding naked on a horse through the streets of Coventry. I expect they showed mercy in Mercia. I've seen news reports of any number of "recreations" of Lady Godiva at one time or another but they never go "the full monty". That expression actually seems to have disappeared since the film, BTW(?) SignaturePhil C. > they never go "the full monty". That > expression actually seems to have disappeared since the film, BTW(?) What was its origin? I always assumed it was something to do with Monty Python, and an oblique reference to the trouser snake. Paul Burke >> they never go "the full monty". That >> expression actually seems to have disappeared since the film, BTW(?) > >What was its origin? I always assumed it was something to do with Monty >Python, and an oblique reference to the trouser snake. There's an account of the debate at <http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/monty.htm> It was common before the film in various contexts suggesting "the whole amount" and no doubt its origin was much discussed but the connection to the film seems to have killed it off (in my experience). SignaturePhil C. >>> they never go "the full monty". That >>> expression actually seems to have disappeared since the film, BTW(?) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > whole amount" and no doubt its origin was much discussed but the > connection to the film seems to have killed it off (in my experience). Nobody can prove that it wasn't invented by Ben Elton - it was certainly popularised by him. SignatureJohn Briggs >>>> they never go "the full monty". That >>>> expression actually seems to have disappeared since the film, BTW(?) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Nobody can prove that it wasn't invented by Ben Elton - it was certainly >popularised by him. I suppose, though, that he'd have explained it if he coined it(?) - he's not known for his reticence. The article suggests that "The jury is still out on this one." But I expect they'll get round to tackling it once they've got the Michael Jackson case out of the way. SignaturePhil C. >>>>> they never go "the full monty". That >>>>> expression actually seems to have disappeared since the film, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > is still out on this one." But I expect they'll get round to tackling > it once they've got the Michael Jackson case out of the way. He may not have *intentionally* coined it. SignatureJohn Briggs ['the full monty'] > I suppose, though, that he'd have explained it if he coined it(?) - > he's not known for his reticence. The article suggests that "The jury > is still out on this one." But I expect they'll get round to tackling > it once they've got the Michael Jackson case out of the way. Etymology from a draft entry for the OED (from the CD-ROM; it's not in the paper version): Many theories are proposed as to the origin of this phrase, but none of them is supported by reliable historical evidence. Perh. the most plausible is that it is from a colloquial shortening of the name of Montague Maurice Burton (18851952), men's tailor, and referred originally to the purchase of a complete three-piece suit. Also popular but unsubstantiated is the belief that the phrase is somehow derived from Monty, the nickname of Field Marshal Bernard Law Montgomery (18871976). However, the sheer variety of often vague, purely anecdotal, and mutually contradictory explanations for the connectionranging from his wartime briefing style to his breakfasting habitsrenders this less credible. Other suggestions, including references to monty n. and monte n.1, are still more speculative. Earliest citation is from 1985. Giles >['the full monty'] <snip> >Earliest citation is from 1985. That surprises me a little. I had the impression that the expression has been around for much longer than that. SignatureJohn Hall "I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly, will hardly mind anything else." Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84) >> ['the full monty'] > <snip> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That surprises me a little. I had the impression that the expression > has been around for much longer than that. Everyone has this "impression". Except for me: I didn't watch Ben Elton, so I wasn't aware of the expression! SignatureJohn Briggs >>> ['the full monty'] >> <snip> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Everyone has this "impression". Except for me: I didn't watch Ben Elton, so >I wasn't aware of the expression! I've never watched Ben Elton but was aware of it. I'd be surprised if he originated it. SignatureJohn Hall "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw > >['the full monty'] > <snip> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That surprises me a little. I had the impression that the expression has > been around for much longer than that. It may well have been around for longer than that (particularly if the Monty Burton theory is correct). That's the earliest citation in the draft entry, though. Viz: 1985 K. Howarth Sounds Gradely (North West Sound Archive), Full-monty, everything included+a thorough displayno messing about. Since it comes from a sound archive, that does indeed suggest that the phrase antedates 1985, as also suggested by the inconclusive etymology. The date on a first citation does not necessarily imply that that is the first time a word or phrase has ever been used, only that it is the earliest citation that the editors have found at the time of publication of that particular edition of the dictionary. Giles On Friday, in article <lcgqe.13234$cN2.11703@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net> > Nobody can prove that it wasn't invented by Ben Elton - it was certainly > popularised by him. Nonsense: I recall my grandfather referring to something as The Full Monty [or perhaps Monte] back in the early 1950s, before Ben Elton was a gleam in his father's eye. SignatureBrian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte." Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657 > On Friday, in article > <lcgqe.13234$cN2.11703@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Monty [or perhaps Monte] back in the early 1950s, before Ben Elton was a > gleam in his father's eye. I was just about to type much the same thing. I remember my grandfather using it in the '60s. At 14:01:12 on Fri, 10 Jun 2005, Phil C. <philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote in <fi3ja15sr9tf5fr2tdeue14eccjammsn4l@4ax.com>: >There's an account of the debate at ><http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/monty.htm> > >It was common before the film in various contexts suggesting "the >whole amount" and no doubt its origin was much discussed but the >connection to the film seems to have killed it off (in my experience). Still in use amongst my friends, referring to a full English breakfast. SignatureMolly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) > New editions of dictionaries tend to be accompanied by a news handout > listing lots of colourful new words that are claimed to have entered [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > language now - let alone in six months time? I've never heard of most > of them. Welll I had heard of the majority of them covered in the news reports even though I live in a foreign country but I agree, lots of them will be transitory. But does it matter? When dictionaries took decades to compile, mistakes or changes of meaning over time were not easy to rectify, whereas nowadays publishing is far more lively and the computer is a wonderful tool for treating words, be it only in their sorting. One can include and exclude words in a much more reactive way therefore. And, of course, even if the word 'chav' has disappeared next year, it is nevertheless necessary to know it if ever there was a need in the future to study documents of our time. Perhaps there is a need for a philologic purgatory section in dictionaries, where new words must languish until time proves their viability and they can accede to the glories of the main pages and become Real Words. >New editions of dictionaries tend to be accompanied by a news handout >listing lots of colourful new words that are claimed to have entered >the language This gets lots of free publicity. The new Collins seems >to have taken the art to the extreme - e.g. >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4074760.stm >A search on Google news for Collins-Dictionary produces many more >reports with more of the "new words". It's something to do with our >vibrant cuture, apparently. Beyond the obvious ones such as chav and chav reminds me of the word spiv: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-spi3.htm >asbo, how many of these words can actually claim to be part of the >language now - let alone in six months time? I've never heard of most >of them. Most of them do appear to be regional or short-lived. By the time the words have permeated main-stream culture, the people originally using them have stopped using them. Try using words like cool, groovy or daddio with a hippy and see the odd looks. Sig: I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them. -- Isaac Asimov |
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