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Discussion Groups / British English / July 2005help on "come to a fine pass"
Hi, all! I am a non-English speaker who is trying hard to learn English. I want to know this phrase "come to a fine pass" and I need you help since I can't find it in my dictionary. Here are two examples I copied from the searching results of Google. 1.¡°Things are come to a fine pass when one sister invites the other to her house o¡¯ purpose to quarrel with her and abuse her.¡± 2.So the old man called the young folks away from the pear-tree and went grumbling on, saying, that the world was come to a fine pass, indeed, when such as they set up for religion. 3. "This is a fine pass you've come to." Could you help me please? Thanks a lot! Best regards, BCBD > Hi, all! > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Could you help me please? Thanks a lot! What's the question ;-) It means a similar thing to "a sorry state of affairs". So in the first phrase you could have "It's a sorry state of affairs when one sister....". Its an effect of opposition with the adjective 'fine' and what the sense of the thig really is. I don't know where this turn of phrase comes from though. >It means a similar thing to "a sorry state of affairs". So in the first >phrase you could have "It's a sorry state of affairs when one >sister....". Its an effect of opposition with the adjective 'fine' and >what the sense of the thig really is. I don't know where this turn of >phrase comes from though. I wonder if it's a jocular distortion of the Biblical "it came to pass"(?)  SignaturePhil C. bcbd@163.com wrote: > Hi, all! > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > BCBD It's not used too frequently these days, I'd think. It is also expressed as "Things have come to a pretty pass when ....(insert grumble)" It just means, 'What are things coming to. . , a lament for the good Old Days etc. ' ' -- Ian Thank you, John of Aix! > Thank you, John of Aix! You're welcome, we're here for that. > > Thank you, John of Aix! > > You're welcome, we're here for that. Speak for yourself. I am here to make snide remarks and juvenile comments about spelling mistakes. Giles SignatureIt's a tough job, but someone has to do it. >>> Thank you, John of Aix! >> >> You're welcome, we're here for that. > > Speak for yourself. I am here to make snide remarks and juvenile > comments about spelling mistakes. Well that too obviously, Usenet is Usenet after all. Any idea where 'come to a fine/pretty pass' comes form Giles, erudite fellow that you are? Sounds liek Shalespeare to me (always a good guess if in doubt). >> Speak for yourself. I am here to make snide remarks and juvenile >> comments about spelling mistakes. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >fellow that you are? Sounds liek Shalespeare to me (always a good guess >if in doubt). Kind of you to give him a couple of opportunities for juvenile comments. :) SignatureJohn Hall "One half of the world cannot understand the pleasures of the other." From "Emma" by Jane Austen (1775-1817) > Any idea where 'come to a fine/pretty pass' comes form Giles, erudite > fellow that you are? Sounds liek Shalespeare to me (always a good guess > if in doubt). Here you go: 7. a. A position or situation in the course of any affair; esp. a position, qualified in some way; a critical position, a juncture, a predicament. Also phr. (to come to) a pretty pass, (to reach) a regrettable state of affairs. Cf. F. être en belle passe, dans une mauvaise passe, etc.: see Littré, Passe 5. But in Eng. app. sometimes associated with pass n.1 as if a fig. use of sense 3a. 1560 J. Daus tr. Sleidane's Comm. 58 Yet all thynges lyke to come to suche a passe. 1581 G. Pettie tr. Guazzo's Civ. Conv. ii. (1586) 49b, The worlde is come to this passe, that it counteth anie thing to bee lawfull which is delightfull. 1596 Spenser F.Q. vi. iii. 14 Him seemed fit that wounded Knight To visite, after this nights perillous passe. 1596 Shakes. Tam. Shr. v. ii. 124 Lord let me neuer haue a cause to sigh, Till I be brought to such a sillie passe. 1610 R. Abbot Old Way 27 To that desperate passe they are brought by the writings of the authors. 1732 Law Serious C. iv. (ed. 2) 66 To such a pass are we now come. 1822 Shelley Triumph Life 302 How and by what paths I have been brought To this dread pass. 1833 H. Martineau Fr. Wines & Pol. vi. 98 Where is the patriotism of bringing things to this pass? 1842 [see pretty a. 3c]. 1843 Dickens Mart. Chuz. (1844) xiv. 178, I need be departing, with all speed, for another country; for I have come to a pretty pass in this! 1876 H. Melville Clarel II. iv. xvi. 501 Was ever Saracen so bold! Well, things have come to pretty passThe mysteries slobbered by an a.s! 1894 C. N. Robinson Brit. Fleet 9 Neglecting, at this critical pass, to secure the maritime approaches to his realm. 1909 Dialect Notes III. 359 Pretty pass,+a peculiar or astounding situation, as abnormal condition: used in derogatory sense. 1955 Times 5 Aug. 10/4 Things, one felt, must have reached a pretty pass if the big banks, or any one of the big banks, had run into the same squalid staffing problems as the National Coal Board or the chain groceries. 1970 Brewer's Dict. Phr. & Fable (rev. ed.) 808/1 A pretty pass, a difficult or deplorable state of affairs. Giles >> Any idea where 'come to a fine/pretty pass' comes form Giles, erudite >> fellow that you are? Sounds liek Shalespeare to me (always a good [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Littré, Passe 5. But in Eng. app. sometimes associated with pass n.1 > as if a fig. use of sense 3a. The 'pass(age)' is simple enough, it is this odd way of putting an opposing adjective with it from the point of view of its real senes, pretty/fine pass, that is peculiar. This sort of thing has a name in English but I can't remember it. > Any idea where 'come to a fine/pretty pass' comes form Giles, erudite > fellow that you are? Sounds liek Shalespeare to me (always a good guess > if in doubt). In my opinion, we've come to a pretty pass now that the Trough of Bowland has been made access land. Paul Burke |
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