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Discussion Groups / British English / August 2005Iller, illest - incorrect, or just unidiomatic?
Yesterday I heard something which didn't sound right - a reference to "iller" patients in a radio programme about hospital funding. I would have said "sicker" instead. "Iller" and "illest" sound incorrect. The forms "more/most ill" sound more acceptable but I would still choose to avoid them. Are iller/illest/more ill/most ill simply unidiomatic, or are they incorrect? Some dictionaries give the comparative and superlative of "ill" as "worse" and "worst", but I find them unsatisfactory - their meaning is too imprecise. > Some dictionaries give the comparative and superlative of "ill" as > "worse" and "worst", but I find them unsatisfactory - their meaning is > too imprecise. Poorlier, poorliest? Or in a different context, more/most malign/evil. > Yesterday I heard something which didn't sound right - a reference to > "iller" patients in a radio programme about hospital funding. I would > have said "sicker" instead. "Iller" and "illest" sound incorrect. Disgusting. 'Iller' and 'illest', though perfectly correct from a construction point of view, are not what we use for sicker and sickest, very ill or on death's door. I suggest you buy a shotgun and shoot the person who uses these words. I would say 'ill, very ill/sicker, extremely ill/knackered' > > Yesterday I heard something which didn't sound right - a reference to > > "iller" patients in a radio programme about hospital funding. I would [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I would say 'ill, very ill/sicker, extremely ill/knackered' A Google Web survey suggests that "sicker/sickest" are indeed the majority choice in the context of a group of patients. (N.B. the quotes are part of the search string): "iller|illest patients" 28 "sicker|sickest patients" 50,400 "sicklier|sickliest patients" 16 "more|most ill patients" 596 "more|most sick patients" 256 "more|most unwell patients" 30 "more|most sickly patients" 23 >>>Yesterday I heard something which didn't sound right - a reference to >>>"iller" patients in a radio programme about hospital funding. I would [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > "more|most unwell patients" 30 > "more|most sickly patients" 23 Since the normal use of "ill" is predicative not attributive, i.e. we say "he's ill" but not usually "an ill patient", this isn't exactly a good test of frequency of "iller" or "illest". I also have no doubt that "sick" is much more common than "ill" because IIRC "ill" is rarely used in American English - and it's not that common in Irish English either. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan > > A Google Web survey suggests that "sicker/sickest" are indeed the > > majority choice in the context of a group of patients. (N.B. the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > say "he's ill" but not usually "an ill patient", this isn't exactly a > good test of frequency of "iller" or "illest". Actually "ill" is very common as an attributive adjective: "ill patients" 653,000 "sick patients" 68,500 However, there's an interesting detail. The word "ill" is almost always preceded by an adverb such as "seriously", "terminally", "chronically" etc. We don't often say "an ill patient" but we do say "a terminally ill patient", and "terminally ill" is much more common than "terminally sick". > I also have no doubt that "sick" is much more common than "ill" because > IIRC "ill" is rarely used in American English - and it's not that common > in Irish English either. It all depends on context... > I also have no doubt that "sick" is much more common than "ill" because > IIRC "ill" is rarely used in American English - and it's not that common > in Irish English either. Interestingly, however, the OED says that the adverbial form "illy" is (or was) "chiefly U.S." and gives some examples such as "I could illy afford to lose it". A Google search for the phrase "illy afford" brings up some 60 examples, and they all seem to be from American documents from over 100 years ago. I suppose a modern British equivalent would be "hardly afford" or "scarcely afford", but I do sometimes hear "can ill afford" - but never "illy" ! I feel as if I should put a third "l" in "illy" ! Neil > > I also have no doubt that "sick" is much more common than "ill" because > > IIRC "ill" is rarely used in American English - and it's not that common [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I feel as if I should put a third "l" in "illy" ! In Stoke, we use "illy" to refer to the Peak District. > In Stoke, we use "illy" to refer to the Peak District. In the Peak District, we use "illy" to refer to a former Yorkshire cricketer. Not with any great affection, mind you. > I feel as if I should put a third "l" in "illy" ! That would be gilding the illy, silly!  Signaturehttp://www.dacha.freeuk.com/cook/20mc-0.htm Making Curds |
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