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Discussion Groups / British English / September 2005"endeavour to have the matter further envisaged" - what date would you guess ???
Must share this - I have (really, really) just received a letter dated th Sept 2005 from my local council which contains the expression " we endeavour to have the matter further envisaged. " Fuller context is " Thank you for pointing out this apparent anomaly and we endeavour to have the matter further envisaged. Unfortunately, this may take some time but it will be progressed. " What date would the assembled experts have guessed for such wording??? I would have started 1910-ish, but having been 30 years in Computing am ignorant on these matters: any guesses or references ?? Yours aye Rab >Must share this - I have (really, really) just received a letter dated th >Sept 2005 from my local council which contains the expression [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >would have started 1910-ish, but having been 30 years in Computing am >ignorant on these matters: any guesses or references ?? It reads like modern gobbledygook to me. "Envisaged" doesn't make any sense and there ought to be a "will" before "endeavour". I'm sure that a council employee in 1910 would have produced something more comprehensible.  SignatureJohn Hall "Home is heaven and orgies are vile, But you *need* an orgy, once in a while." Ogden Nash (1902-1971) >> Must share this - I have (really, really) just received a letter >> dated th Sept 2005 from my local council which contains the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > that a council employee in 1910 would have produced something more > comprehensible. And wouldn't have said "it will be progressed." SignatureJohn Briggs At 20:55:58 on Wed, 14 Sep 2005, John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in <y70We.18015$Aa1.9642@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>: >> It reads like modern gobbledygook to me. "Envisaged" doesn't make any >> sense and there ought to be a "will" before "endeavour". I'm sure >> that a council employee in 1910 would have produced something more >> comprehensible. > >And wouldn't have said "it will be progressed." I suspect that around 1910 the passive voice would have ruled supreme. "In reference to your letter of the 10th inst., the subject matter has been noted and will receive our attention." There would have been no advance apologies for delays - nobody would have expected instant action anyway. (And yes, I was - many decades ago - taught the usage of inst., ult. and even prox. For those who weren't, they stand for "this month", "last month" and "next month".) SignatureMolly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) > At 20:55:58 on Wed, 14 Sep 2005, John Briggs > <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > "In reference to your letter of the 10th inst., the subject matter has > been noted and will receive our attention." Yes, of course - but it was "progress" as a verb that I was objecting to. SignatureJohn Briggs > > At 20:55:58 on Wed, 14 Sep 2005, John Briggs > > <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in > > <y70We.18015$Aa1.9642@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>: > >>> It reads like modern gobbledygook to me. "Envisaged" doesn't make > >>> any sense and there ought to be a "will" before "endeavour". I'm > >>> sure that a council employee in 1910 would have produced something > >>> more comprehensible. > >> And wouldn't have said "it will be progressed." > > I suspect that around 1910 the passive voice would have ruled supreme. > > "In reference to your letter of the 10th inst., the subject matter has > > been noted and will receive our attention." > > Yes, of course - but it was "progress" as a verb that I was objecting to. There's nothing wrong with using "progress" as a verb, as in "The work is progressing nicely". I suspect that what you really had in mind is an objection to using "progress" as a transitive verb. Surprising to see, though, the _New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary_ has the following definition of the verb "progress": 4 v.t. Cause (a situation, condition, etc.) to move forward or improve; cause (work etc.) to proceed towards completion; spec. (US) secure the passage of (a bill) through a legislative body. E19. They give the following examples for that meaning: 4 _Marxism Today_ To progress the possibility of women being represented. _Landscape_ Every endeavour will be made to progress your interest. _Merriam-Webster's Unabridged Dictionary_ has progress transitive verb [...] 2 : to cause to progress : push forward : ADVANCE <a really big housing program cannot be successfully progressed _Americana Annual_> >> Must share this - I have (really, really) just received a letter >> dated th Sept 2005 from my local council which contains the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > that a council employee in 1910 would have produced something more > comprehensible. Modern gobbledygook for me too, and 'progressed' is not used in this sense except by wafflers without knowledge, of the type that seems to have written the notice. > Must share this - I have (really, really) just > received a letter dated th Sept 2005 from my > local council which contains the expression > "we will endeavour to have the matter further > envisaged." [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > in Computing am ignorant on these matters: > any guesses or references ?? I strongly doubt that any English user of any century would have used English those ways. I suspect the text was written by a non-native English speaker whose English usage was still far from acceptable. >> Must share this - I have (really, really) just >> received a letter dated th Sept 2005 from my [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > written by a non-native English speaker whose English usage > was still far from acceptable. !! You may be right: It is possible this was written by a native Gaelic speaker (being from Highlands of Scotland..). The "Manager" speaks with a strong West-Highland accent, his assistant who e-mailed the letter (and I guess probably wrote it..) is a xxx MxYyyyy.... > Must share this - I have (really, really) just received a letter > dated th Sept 2005 from my local council which contains the > expression " we endeavour to have the matter further envisaged. " Obviously the writer thought "we are trying to find someone to look into the matter" too plain. Signaturehttp://www.dacha.freeuk.com/penny/1d-01.htm Ayesha uttered a little Turkish yelp then upped her voluminous skirts and downed her voluminous knickers At 21:41:48 on Wed, 14 Sep 2005, David <david@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in <4daa7520a7david@dacha.freeuk.com>: >> Must share this - I have (really, really) just received a letter >> dated th Sept 2005 from my local council which contains the >> expression " we endeavour to have the matter further envisaged. " > >Obviously the writer thought "we are trying to find someone to look >into the matter" too plain. It's just occurred to me that "envisaged" is probably a spell-checker's substitution for an incorrectly-spelled "investigated". SignatureMolly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) > Thank you for pointing out this apparent anomaly and we endeavour to have > the matter further envisaged. Unfortunately, this may take some time but it > will be progressed. Sounds to me like modern management-speak, with helpful input from the Legal, Marketing and Human Resources departments. Giles |
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