1960s motorways
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Pawe³ Piotr Stawski - 25 Dec 2005 22:04 GMT Could you tell me if there are any names for your motorways and how they have changed over years, please?
Regards, Pawel Poland
Molly Mockford - 25 Dec 2005 22:20 GMT At 23:04:31 on Sun, 25 Dec 2005, Pawe³ Piotr Stawski <english@stawski.pl> wrote in <86d11$43af176f$d4ba586d$31920@news.chello.pl>:
>Could you tell me if there are any names for your motorways and how they >have changed over years, please? The first one was the M1. It was given that name just because it was the very first (M for motorway, 1 for first). Subsequent motorways were named after the A roads which they paralleled - for example, the M4, the M8 etc. The one which paralleled the A1 had to be named the A1(M) because the name M1 had already been used.
None of the names have ever changed since they were built. Why would you think they should? Do the names of motorways often change in Poland?
 Signature Molly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)
Pawel Piotr Stawski - 25 Dec 2005 22:24 GMT > At 23:04:31 on Sun, 25 Dec 2005, Pawe³ Piotr Stawski <english@stawski.pl> > wrote in <86d11$43af176f$d4ba586d$31920@news.chello.pl>: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > None of the names have ever changed since they were built. Why would you > think they should? Do the names of motorways often change in Poland? I thought of some 'nicknames'. For example the motorway from Warsaw to Katowice in Poland is called nothing but 'Gierkowka' after Polish Comunist Prime Minister of 1960-1970s. I even do not know what is the code of this motorway. We also call it 'Katowice' motorway. And to tell you the truth this is the common name given to this highway. Yes, the codes in Poland change quite often and for us it is a real pain in the neck. Regards, Pawel
John Briggs - 26 Dec 2005 14:17 GMT > At 23:04:31 on Sun, 25 Dec 2005, Pawe³ Piotr Stawski > <english@stawski.pl> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > M4, the M8 etc. The one which paralleled the A1 had to be named the > A1(M) because the name M1 had already been used. No. The first motorway was the Preston by-pass section of the M6, which was opened before the M1. The rest of the M6 was built later. The M1 was probably so called because it was intended to replace the A1, although it paralled the A5 and the A6 for the first part. The M5 has, of course, no connection to the A5.
 Signature John Briggs
Paul Burke - 30 Dec 2005 08:49 GMT > The first motorway was the Preston by-pass section of the M6, which was > opened before the M1. The rest of the M6 was built later. The M1 was > probably so called because it was intended to replace the A1, although it > paralled the A5 and the A6 for the first part. The M5 has, of course, no > connection to the A5. I suspect the M1 was so called because it was a replacement for the A1, and you couldn't have an M1 that didn't start in London. Apart from the M5 (which it's possible was originally conceived a replacement A5, London to Holyhead, but later re- routed), most of the other early motorways take the name from the parallel A road.
Paul Burke
Pawel Piotr Stawski - 30 Dec 2005 13:51 GMT >> The first motorway was the Preston by-pass section of the M6, which was >> opened before the M1. The rest of the M6 was built later. The M1 was [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Holyhead, but later re- routed), most of the other early motorways take > the name from the parallel A road. You know, I am looking for some nicknames. For instance, M6 from London past Birmingham up north to Glasgow, Scotland was called the Backbone of Britain. Are you familiar with this name? My question is, if common, ordinary people know this name or is it only used in some more newspapers?
Regards, Pawel
> Paul Burke John Briggs - 30 Dec 2005 14:28 GMT >>> The first motorway was the Preston by-pass section of the M6, >>> which was opened before the M1. The rest of the M6 was built [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > if common, ordinary people know this name or is it only used in some > more newspapers? The M6 doesn't start from London - it branches off the M1 east of Coventry. It doesn't reach the Scottish border. The continuation to Glasgow is the A74/M74. I have never heard the supposed nickname - and I don't suppose anyone else has either. We've already told you - motorways don't have nicknames.
 Signature John Briggs
Pawe³ Piotr Stawski - 30 Dec 2005 17:03 GMT >>>> The first motorway was the Preston by-pass section of the M6, >>>> which was opened before the M1. The rest of the M6 was built [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > The M6 doesn't start from London http://www.cbrd.co.uk/motorway/m6/ to be exact if your really feel like being precise.
- it branches off the M1 east of Coventry.
> It doesn't reach the Scottish border. The continuation to Glasgow is the > A74/M74. Was it really so important to corect me on those small details? I know exactly where this mororway goes. http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/M6%20motorway
I have read on the topic a lot recently. So stop bugging me, please. http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/
http://www.cbrd.co.uk/
I have never heard the supposed nickname - and I don't suppose
> anyone else has either. We've already told you - motorways don't have
> nicknames. http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/M6%20motorway especially: line 5 from top. there you go. backbone. You haven't heard. OK. If you haven't seen "bigos" it does not mean it does not exist. Regards, Pawel
Bibliography that I have used in my work. So please, be so kind and tell me only things I do not know.
Regards,
Pawe³
1.. http://www.cbrd.co.uk/histories/timeline/
2.. http://www.iht.org/motorway/ukroadmaps.htm
3.. Sabre website: http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/
4.. BBC website:http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/
5.. Eurotunnel website: http://www.eurotunnel.com/ET_P3UI/Common/Templates/xxtGateway.aspx?NRMODE=Publis hed&NRORIGINALURL=%2fukcp3main&NRNODEGUID=%7bFAE1E01E-BDF1-4208-85BE-31B0D8AC935 C%7d&NRCACHEHINT=Guest#
6.. The Anti-Social Bastards in Our Midst: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=76&ItemID=9357
7.. Article about Sir William Harris: http://www.guardian.co.uk/transport/Story/0,2763,1447170,00.html
8.. Birmingham: http://www.birminghamuk.com/wikipedia/
9.. Source of pictures: http://bealach-na-ba.fotopic.net/
10.. Department for Transport: http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_localtrans/documents/sectionhomepage/d ft_local_transport_page.hcsp
John Briggs - 30 Dec 2005 17:49 GMT >>>>> The first motorway was the Preston by-pass section of the M6, >>>>> which was opened before the M1. The rest of the M6 was built [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > exactly where this mororway goes. > http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/M6%20motorway Why? Because this is a newsgroup for pedants to quibble about English language usage in the UK. If you knew exactly where the motorway went you wouldn't have made the mistake.
> I have read on the topic a lot recently. So stop bugging me, please. > http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/ > > http://www.cbrd.co.uk/ On the contrary, you are bugging us.
>> I have never heard the supposed nickname - and I don't suppose >> anyone else has either. We've already told you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > line 5 from top. there you go. backbone. You haven't heard. OK. If you > haven't seen "bigos" it does not mean it does not exist. And they took it from the Wikipedia. God knows where they got it from. You asked the question - I gave the answer. You have been warned about your attitude before.
 Signature John Briggs
Pawe³ Piotr Stawski - 31 Dec 2005 11:50 GMT >>>>>> The first motorway was the Preston by-pass section of the M6, >>>>>> which was opened before the M1. The rest of the M6 was built [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > And they took it from the Wikipedia. God knows where they got it from. > You asked the question - I gave the answer. You have been warned I quitted. You do not discuss anything here. And you just cannot help warning and threatening me. I do not care what you add to this tread. Regards, Pawel
about your
> attitude before. Molly Mockford - 31 Dec 2005 14:24 GMT At 12:50:14 on Sat, 31 Dec 2005, Pawe³ Piotr Stawski <p.stawski@chello.pl> wrote in <d461f$43b67086$d4ba586d$2987@news.chello.pl>:
>I quitted. You do not discuss anything here. And you just cannot help >warning and threatening me. I do not care what you add to this tread. Happy New Year, everybody!
 Signature Molly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)
Einde O'Callaghan - 31 Dec 2005 15:25 GMT > At 12:50:14 on Sat, 31 Dec 2005, Pawe³ Piotr Stawski > <p.stawski@chello.pl> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Happy New Year, everybody! I would like to add my best wishes for the new Year to all regulars.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
David - 31 Dec 2005 17:22 GMT > > Happy New Year, everybody!
> I would like to add my best wishes for the new Year to all regulars. Same from me, along with best wishes for Xmas.
 Signature David - toro-danyo atcost uku fullstop co fullstop uk http://www.toro-danyo.uku.co.uk/
Pawe³ Piotr Stawski - 31 Dec 2005 20:37 GMT >> > Happy New Year, everybody! > >> I would like to add my best wishes for the new Year to all regulars. > > Same from me, along with best wishes for Xmas. Happy New Year, everybody. Although, most the time I am a nuisance and a pest as well but I can tell you one thing: I love your language! Take care as it is snowing everywhere! Pawel from snowy Poland
snow use clearing that snow
Pedt - 03 Jan 2006 16:08 GMT In message <41nm5uF1ff5qaU1@individual.net>, at 16:25:52 on Sat, 31 Dec 2005, Einde O'Callaghan <einde.ocallaghan@planet-interkom.de> wibbled
>> At 12:50:14 on Sat, 31 Dec 2005, Pawe³ Piotr Stawski >><p.stawski@chello.pl> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >I would like to add my best wishes for the new Year to all regulars. Me too.
I lurk far more than I ever post but I hope that doesn't preclude me from wishing everyone the very best for 2006.
 Signature Pedt Helpful words 04: Formicate (v) To swarm like ants. CCTV staff at rush hour might want to say "Do you know that the passengers are formicating all over the station platforms."
Erick Andrews - 03 Jan 2006 00:56 GMT > At 12:50:14 on Sat, 31 Dec 2005, Pawe³ Piotr Stawski > <p.stawski@chello.pl> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Happy New Year, everybody! Well, Happy New Year from me to everyone, too.
I thought I stick this-here-query of mine on to your thread, Molly.
Maybe it's a bit OT, but I'm wondering if you, or anyone else might know of a song or rhyme about the M4? It goes sumpin' like --
Ho hum po and fargle Down by the new M4...
[and it keeps a repetitive refrain of "Ho hum po and fargle"]
and I can't remember much more of it. It may have been some popular 'ballad' in the '70s, or not long after the construction of the M4, but I honesty can't say. Ever heard of it? Maybe it was just a spoof on Radio 4 before I moved to the area in the early '80s?
 Signature Best, Erick Andrews delete bogus to reply
Molly Mockford - 03 Jan 2006 07:49 GMT At 00:56:10 on Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Erick Andrews <eandrews@bogusstar.net> wrote in <sGi8lzkop2Rq-pn2-h3KpZsZ58bnz@HAL9000>:
>I thought I stick this-here-query of mine on to your thread, Molly. Not "my" thread - I didn't even start it, and no thread "belongs" to anyone!
>Maybe it's a bit OT, but I'm wondering if you, or anyone else might >know of a song or rhyme about the M4? It goes sumpin' like -- > > Ho hum po and fargle > Down by the new M4... I'm afraid I've never heard of it. I've done a quick search at the Digital Tradition database and the discussion forums at the Mudcat Cafe <http://www.mudcat.org>, but with no luck.
You could try asking on uk.music.folk - it's amazing what people there can dredge up from their memories!
 Signature Molly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)
Mike Stevens - 03 Jan 2006 12:28 GMT > At 00:56:10 on Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Erick Andrews <eandrews@bogusstar.net> > wrote in <sGi8lzkop2Rq-pn2-h3KpZsZ58bnz@HAL9000>: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Digital Tradition database and the discussion forums at the Mudcat Cafe > <http://www.mudcat.org>, but with no luck. It sounds to me rather in the style of Rambling Sid Rump (who, for those of you who don't remember him, was a spoof folk-singer, played by Kenneth Williams in either "Round the Horne" or "Beyond our Ken", or possibly oth - UK radio comedy of a few decades ago).
-- Mike Stevens narrowboat Felis Catus III Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
John Briggs - 03 Jan 2006 12:46 GMT >> At 00:56:10 on Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Erick Andrews >> <eandrews@bogusstar.net> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > or possibly > oth - UK radio comedy of a few decades ago). That's Rambling Syd Rumpo, of course. Unlikely to be him, the M4 didn't go beyond Maidenhead in his day.
 Signature John Briggs
David M - 03 Jan 2006 15:56 GMT Pawe³ Piotr Stawski wrote in uk.culture.language.english about: Re: 1960s motorways
>> The M6 doesn't start from London > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > exactly where this mororway goes. > http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/M6%20motorway Given that you've looked up the details for yourself, it would seem that you *are* quite interested in the exact details. Also, as most people don't really give roads more than the most cursory thoughts, anyone who does is usually quite keen to know that the information that they should possess is the most accurate.
There's no need to be so rude to somebody who has voluntarily given up a moment of their time to supply you with a snippet of relevant information that you might find useful. That's the nature of usenet, after all.
> I have read on the topic a lot recently. So stop bugging me, please. > http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/ Regular contributors to this newsgroup have commented quite a lot on your rudeness recently. You profess to apologise, yet never seem to show any signs of acting more as one would expect in public.
Do you really think that "Stop bugging me" is really an appropriate way to respond to somebody who was only offering you some additional information, free of charge?
Your grasp of English is generally very good, so you surely must know that "Stop bugging me" is a /fairly/ rude thing to say, and completely inappropriate in the circumstances.
You could easily just have said, "Thank you, but I've already looked up some websites which provide this information:", thereby contributing some useful information back to the group for those unaware of those websites, yet you didn't. A somewhat more friendly way of responding, don't you think?
I'm afraid to say that your continuing rudeness, and barrage of questioning, is likely to find you ending up in my scorefile as well.
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Paul Burke - 03 Jan 2006 09:06 GMT > We've already told you - motorways don't have > nicknames. I've heard various names for the M25, but my ISP would cut me off if I told you them.
Anna Langley - 03 Jan 2006 10:18 GMT >> We've already told you - motorways don't have >> nicknames. > > I've heard various names for the M25, but my ISP would cut me > off if I told you them. Certainly a great many colourful adjectives have been used to describe the M25, many of which it surely deserves. But as for alternative names, the only one I know is "the London orbital car park".
Anna
Peter Duncanson - 30 Dec 2005 14:27 GMT >> The first motorway was the Preston by-pass section of the M6, which was >> opened before the M1. The rest of the M6 was built later. The M1 was [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >London to Holyhead, but later re- routed), most of the other early >motorways take the name from the parallel A road. There is more information about this at: http://www.answers.com/topic/great-britain-road-numbering-scheme
Briefly:
The main trunk roads, single digit A roads, radiate out from London (A1 to A6) and Edinburgh (A7 to A9). The numbers increase clockwise.
These roads divide the country (England and Wales, and, separately, Scotland) into zones. For example the "3" zone lies between the A3 and the A4. All roads starting in that zone have numbers beginning with 3.
The main motorways roughly parallel the main trunk roads and similarly divide the country into zones for (motorway) numbering purposes.
As far as I know the M5 was not conceived of as a replacement A5. Its number presumably derives from the fact that it starts at a place that is between the M4 and the M6.
Roads are considered to start at a major city/town and finish at a lesser. Thus the M5 starts at Birmingham and ends at Exeter.
 Signature Peter Duncanson UK (posting from u.c.l.e)
David M - 03 Jan 2006 15:15 GMT Molly Mockford wrote in uk.culture.language.english about: Re: 1960s motorways
> None of the names have ever changed since they were built. Why would > you think they should? Do the names of motorways often change in > Poland? Road numbers often change as the exact path followed by the main route changes from time to time as new roads are built, or incongruities in numbering are rectified. Although this is more common (in the UK) with 'A'-roads, some motorway numbers have changed, eg:
M4 Severn Bridge I -> M48 M85 -> M90 M74 -> M6 (expected outcome if England ever gets around to extending the M6 to the Scottish border)
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Dave Fawthrop - 26 Dec 2005 07:28 GMT | Could you tell me if there are any names for your motorways and how they | have changed over years, please? We do not *name* motorways, they are known by their numbers. Roads get names, such as the A1 (Great North Road).
The names A, B and C of roads rarely change, but the numbers are unreliable, and the planners detrunk main roads which have been bypassed, or make minor roads into major roads.
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David M - 03 Jan 2006 15:01 GMT Dave Fawthrop wrote in uk.culture.language.english about: Re: 1960s motorways
>| Could you tell me if there are any names for your motorways and how they >| have changed over years, please? > > We do not *name* motorways, they are known by their numbers. > Roads get names, such as the A1 (Great North Road). Actually, that's not entirely true.
The M25 is somewhat pretentiously-entitled "London Orbital Motorway" (whatever was wrong with just plain old "ring road"?), and even says "M25 London Orbital" on distance signs.
The arms of Glasgow's strangulating concrete octopus (fortunately, only a few arms were built) were (formally?) known as "Renfrew Motorway", "Monklands Motorway", "Maryhill Motorway", etc, and are possibly still known as such by some, but are only indicated by number on signs.
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{R} - 09 Jan 2006 15:23 GMT In uk.culture.language.english on Tue, 3 Jan 2006 15:01:17 +0000, David M <david@bogus.domain.dom> wrote:
}Dave Fawthrop wrote in uk.culture.language.english } about: Re: 1960s motorways } }> On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 23:04:31 +0100, "Pawe³ Piotr Stawski" }><english@stawski.pl> wrote: }> }>| Could you tell me if there are any names for your motorways and how they }>| have changed over years, please? }> }> We do not *name* motorways, they are known by their numbers. }> Roads get names, such as the A1 (Great North Road). } }Actually, that's not entirely true. } }The M25 is somewhat pretentiously-entitled "London Orbital Motorway" }(whatever was wrong with just plain old "ring road"?), and even says }"M25 London Orbital" on distance signs.
I believe that it got its name from the A25 which it parallels on the Southern half of the route. The A25 is the only one of the A2, A20, A21, A22, A23, A24 that does not go to London
The M25 is also as far as I know the only "Orbital" road where if you wish to go orbitally you have to turn left/right off the M25 or else end up on the M26/A21
{R}
John Briggs - 09 Jan 2006 16:28 GMT > In uk.culture.language.english on Tue, 3 Jan 2006 15:01:17 +0000, > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > wish to go orbitally you have to turn left/right off the M25 or else > end up on the M26/A21 Although something similar happens with the M1 at Leeds, where you have to change lanes in order to stay on the M1 (both directions, IIRC).
 Signature John Briggs
Nick Wagg - 09 Jan 2006 17:55 GMT > The M25 is also as far as I know the only "Orbital" road where if you wish > to go orbitally you have to turn left/right off the M25 or else end up on > the M26/A21 There are plenty of ring roads which require you to turn left or right, sometimes keeping to the same road number and sometimes not. That said, the M25 is a fairly major ring road.
Dave Fawthrop - 09 Jan 2006 19:39 GMT | > The M25 is also as far as I know the only "Orbital" road where if you wish | > to go orbitally you have to turn left/right off the M25 or else end up on [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | or right, sometimes keeping to the same road number and | sometimes not. That said, the M25 is a fairly major ring road. The part of the old M62 north of Manchester which is now the M60 is my pet hate. You lose the M62 for a while then it reappears :-(
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