Balderdash and Piffle

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Dave Fawthrop - 03 Jan 2006 08:33 GMT

I watched the trailers for Balderdash and Piffle (Mondays 21:00 to
21:50) and was very doubtful about if it would be worth watching

What they are doing is to find the first recorded use of a word for
use in the Oxford English Dictionary.

The found an early *advertising* reference to Ploughman's Lunch which
will go in OED. They failed to convince OED about early references
to Pear Shaped and Gay.

There are another 5 which I will watch.

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Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
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Molly Mockford - 03 Jan 2006 08:48 GMT

At 08:33:17 on Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Dave Fawthrop
<invalid@hyphenologist.co.uk.invalid> wrote in
<3vckr19g3itam2958ng15gtqbtm850dieq@4ax.com>:

>I watched the trailers for Balderdash and Piffle (Mondays 21:00 to
>21:50) and was very doubtful about if it would be worth watching

It was an interesting show, and it's good to see television take an
interest in the English language for a change.

>The found an early *advertising* reference to Ploughman's Lunch which
>will go in OED.

That in itself justified the entire series, I reckon, as otherwise that
particular archive would have gone unmined, and we would never have
known that the term was in fact invented by the Dairy Council/Milk
Marketing Board.

> They failed to convince OED about early references
>to Pear Shaped and Gay.

I was very surprised that the OED rejected the Noel Coward reference,
which to my mind was clearly intended as a double entendre - but I
suppose they have to draw very hard lines between fact and guesswork.

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Molly Mockford
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John Briggs - 03 Jan 2006 11:11 GMT

> At 08:33:17 on Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Dave Fawthrop
> <invalid@hyphenologist.co.uk.invalid> wrote in
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> have known that the term was in fact invented by the Dairy
> Council/Milk Marketing Board.

Except that they gave only a throwaway reference to the film "The
Ploughman's Lunch" which had more or less said that 20 years ago.

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John Briggs

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Peter Duncanson - 03 Jan 2006 13:44 GMT

>> At 08:33:17 on Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Dave Fawthrop
>> <invalid@hyphenologist.co.uk.invalid> wrote in
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>Except that they gave only a throwaway reference to the film "The
>Ploughman's Lunch" which had more or less said that 20 years ago.

But would that have been adequate evidence for the OED? After all, the
makers of films tend to tidy up and simplify facts, and make certain the
uncertain, for artistic purposes.

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Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from u.c.l.e)

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John Briggs - 03 Jan 2006 08:57 GMT

> I watched the trailers for Balderdash and Piffle (Mondays 21:00 to
> 21:50) and was very doubtful about if it would be worth watching
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> will go in OED. They failed to convince OED about early references
> to Pear Shaped and Gay.

Yes, yes - but what are you trying to say?

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John Briggs

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Dave Fawthrop - 03 Jan 2006 11:27 GMT

| > I watched the trailers for Balderdash and Piffle (Mondays 21:00 to
| > 21:50) and was very doubtful about if it would be worth watching
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
|
| Yes, yes - but what are you trying to say?

IMO the rest will be worth watching

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Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

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John Briggs - 03 Jan 2006 11:35 GMT

>>> I watched the trailers for Balderdash and Piffle (Mondays 21:00 to
>>> 21:50) and was very doubtful about if it would be worth watching
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> IMO the rest will be worth watching

Thanks for the clarification :-)

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John Briggs

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Pedt - 03 Jan 2006 16:04 GMT

In message <3vckr19g3itam2958ng15gtqbtm850dieq@4ax.com>, at 08:33:17 on
Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Dave Fawthrop <invalid@hyphenologist.co.uk.invalid>
wibbled

>I watched the trailers for Balderdash and Piffle (Mondays 21:00 to
>21:50) and was very doubtful about if it would be worth watching

I missed the first one. RL being more important at the moment than
watching a TV programme.

Definitive only then possible not worth watching if that is all you are
interested in. I saw the trailers and even if it wasn't definitive then
that's not worth sticking your nose up at it IMO.

Perhaps it should be recognised that the BBC are expressing an interest
in words outside of Call My Bluff and this should be encouraged IMO.

>What they are doing is to find the first recorded use of a word for
>use in the Oxford English Dictionary.

Fine.

>The found an early *advertising* reference to Ploughman's Lunch which
>will go in OED.

So what? The fact that it was/ may have been coined in advertising is
irrelevant to my mind.

>They failed to convince OED about early references to Pear Shaped and

Gay.

So what? A mention is sufficient if it goes in. If they can find the
earliest recorded documented use then that's a bonus.

If the OED can't be convinced then maybe it shouldn't be in there at the
moment?

>There are another 5 which I will watch.

If I can find the time then I will be doing so also.

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Pedt
Helpful words 04: Formicate (v) To swarm like ants. CCTV staff at rush hour
might want to say "Do you know that the passengers are formicating all over
the station platforms."

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Discussion Groups / British English / January 2006

Balderdash and Piffle