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Discussion Groups / British English / February 2006Guttoral stop
What is the guttoral stop ? I have assumed it to be the 'g' sound some folk use to pronounce words like 'nothing' (nothing-k) Is this a regionalism or simply poor English ? > What is the guttoral stop ? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Is this a regionalism or simply poor English ? Do you mean the glottal stop? If so, it's typically when someone drops the "t" sound in the middle or at the end of a word, so instead of saying butter, they say buh'er (how do you transliterate a glottal stop?). Some would say it's regionalism, others would say poor English. The troof is probally a bi' of bofe. :-) (I used to live in Pawtsmuf) Cheers Tony  SignatureTony Mountifield Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org >> What is the guttoral stop ? >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Cheers >Tony Lol, so what is the nothing-k thing ? > Lol, so what is the nothing-k thing ? Pronouncing a "k" at the end of the word, usually combined with the conversion of the "th" to "ff" is a fairly common and intensely irritating regionalism emanating from the vicinity of London. It is a feature of "Estuary English" and the technical term for it is ignorance, or possibly laziness. Pronouncing a hard "g" at the end of words ending in "ing" is very common in and around NottinGham and is merely an interesting local variation. >Pronouncing a "k" at the end of the word, usually combined >with the conversion of the "th" to "ff" is a fairly common and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >is very common in and around NottinGham and is merely >an interesting local variation. I wonder if the two are both descendants of an ancient form. "K" and "g" sounds are often related. SignaturePhil C. > What is the guttoral stop ? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Is this a regionalism or simply poor English ? I don't know. GuttUral by the way. But the glottal stop is used in dialect (in Salford, Lancashire, about 40 years ago, mostly by naughty boys). It's pronounced "glo''al stop". And "butter" was pronounced "Bu''oh", a short 0, and the h pronounced. It was the only H they did pronounce. Paul Burke > What is the guttoral stop ? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Is this a regionalism or simply poor English ? Looks like the guttural stop is the Arabic 'ayn' which is (to my ears) similar to the glo''al stop. If 'nothing' is pronoiunced with a final k, it's usually 'nuffink', and is South-Eastern mostly (I think). Paul Burke > What is the guttoral stop ? It's a glottal stop, not a guttural stop It just means the 'break' that some people make in word like 'better' which they pronounce 'be'er'. As far as I know, when a French word begins with a vowel, the glottal stop precedes it. This does not happen in English, but many dialects (e.g. the urban dialects of London, Edinburgh, etc.) use the glottal stop in words such as "little, bottle" [li?l] [bo?l] and "button, mutton" [ba?n] [ma?n] (mind you, this isn't true phonetic spelling). The glottal stop doesn't seem widespread in American English, though I've heard it in the song "The hardest button to button" by The White Stripes. The feature is non-standard in both GB and US English, but it does not indicate "poor English." The sound in "-ing", but also "bank, song" is called the velar nasal. > As far as I know, when a French word begins with a vowel, the glottal > stop precedes it. Not at all. Or barely in my experience. Perhaps when a vowel precedes a vowel such as in 'à actionner' if you'd call that a glottal stop. >Not at all. Or barely in my experience. Perhaps when a vowel precedes a >vowel such as in 'à actionner' if you'd call that a glottal stop. Sorry. My French is not very good, but I do remember something like that. Of course, it is more common if the speaker puts emphasis on the words or wants to be heard clearly. >> Not at all. Or barely in my experience. Perhaps when a vowel >> precedes a vowel such as in 'à actionner' if you'd call that a >> glottal stop. > Sorry. My French is not very good, but I do remember something like > that. I'm interested now but I can't see where other the example I give, and when the 'h' is asîrate (but un heard) so no elision is made, the differences beweeen 'l'habitude' and 'le haut', in the latter the 'h' being aspirate so causing a certain amount of breath stop to separate the words, if not quite a glottal stop. Yes, I meant <h> aspire', as in 'le haut,' but I'm no expert on French anyway. Etienne asked about the glottal stop and the velar nasal in English and I hope my answer wasn't wrong. > Yes, I meant <h> aspire', as in 'le haut,' but I'm no expert on French > anyway. Etienne asked about the glottal stop and the velar nasal in > English and I hope my answer wasn't wrong. No I don't think so. The glottal stop is of course common in British English, most particulalrly among London's Cockneys, 'bu-ah' for 'butter', 'be-ah' for better etc. to John of Aix: It is common, but not standard. I included Cockney in the category "the urban dialect of London." My former teacher was from Birmingham and he also used the sound a lot, which made him really difficult to understand. My English was far worse than it is now, so we could never have a proper conversation. This is what happens if you have spent years learning only the standard dialect of a FL and are suddenly confronted with people speaking a completely different one (that is neither better nor worse). >What is the guttoral stop ? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Is this a regionalism or simply poor English ? If you are French (in exile in the Western Cape), describing a glottal stop is difficult because it is rarely used in French, but it is a sudden closing/opening of the vocal chords (glottis). The effect is to give a sharp start or end to a vowel or distinct break between two consecutive vowels. It commonly replaces 't' in certain circumstances eg 'whiteness', 'that bus' and often precedes a word starting with a vowel when speaking emphatically. (Its use in front of words beginning with a vowel is much more common in German.) If English is not your first language then I would say forget about the glottal stop unless you want to pass as English without the slightest trace of a foreign accent. SignaturePhilip Baker >>What is the guttoral stop ? >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >glottal stop unless you want to pass as English without the slightest >trace of a foreign accent. sor'ed may (sorted mate) > If you are French (in exile in the Western Cape), describing a glottal > stop is difficult because it is rarely used in French, but it is a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > when speaking emphatically. (Its use in front of words beginning with a > vowel is much more common in German.) I've just been experimenting, and I can't imagine how to begin a phrase with a vowel and NOT use a glottal stop to start it. Cheers Tony SignatureTony Mountifield Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org >> If you are French (in exile in the Western Cape), describing a glottal >> stop is difficult because it is rarely used in French, but it is a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I've just been experimenting, and I can't imagine how to begin a phrase >with a vowel and NOT use a glottal stop to start it. That's a problem I have in learning French. The French, in spite another poster's opinion, very rarely put a glottal stop anywhere. Although, ranked with the other problems in trying to acquire some fluency in the language, suppressing glottal stops is of fairly minimal importance. SignaturePhilip Baker |
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