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Discussion Groups / British English / December 2003There be dragons
Two or three weeks ago I read in The Economist an article whose title was "There be Dragons". The article dealt with the so-called Asian tigers (Asian countries with a roaring growth rate). I still can't understand where the title comes from. There must be a reference to something but I can't find what. Can anybody help ? Thanks. | Two or three weeks ago I read in The Economist an article whose title was | "There be Dragons". The article dealt with the so-called Asian tigers (Asian | countries with a roaring growth rate). I still can't understand where the | title comes from. There must be a reference to something but I can't find | what. Can anybody help ? It should be "Here be Dragons" In medieval times they drew maps which sometimes bore a slight reality to reality, but large parts were unknown or unexplored. At about the same time there were bestiaries Books in which fantastic beasts were drawn, some of which are clearly representations of giraffes, lions, hippopotamuses etc. drawn by someone who had never seen them, but had heard of travelers tales of them. Thus a crocodile might well become a dragon. In the unexplored parts of these maps they were reputed to write "Here be dragons" I have seen copies of several of these maps, but never seen "Here be dragons" myself. In the unexplored seas they drew sea monsters ?whales?  SignatureDave Fawthrop <dave@hyphenologist.co.uk> FTV Satellite ITV, Ch4 and 5. To receive These+Beeb+others, Free To View from satellite get a Next Generation viewing card. Ring 08700 54 1800. *Domestic* card costs GBP23.50. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/digital/channels.shtml > In the unexplored parts of these maps they were reputed to write "Here be > dragons" I have seen copies of several of these maps, but never seen > "Here be dragons" myself. In the unexplored seas they drew sea monsters > ?whales? Why "be"? Bye-bye, FB >>In the unexplored parts of these maps they were reputed to write "Here be >>dragons" I have seen copies of several of these maps, but never seen >>"Here be dragons" myself. In the unexplored seas they drew sea monsters >>?whales? > > Why "be"? Probably and old-fashioned subjunctive - an obsolete usage. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan > > Why "be"? > > > Probably and old-fashioned subjunctive - an obsolete usage. A sort of tentative form, I suppose. Bye-bye, FB | > In the unexplored parts of these maps they were reputed to write "Here be | > dragons" I have seen copies of several of these maps, but never seen | > "Here be dragons" myself. In the unexplored seas they drew sea monsters | > ?whales? | | Why "be"? Medieval English, or cod Medieval English. I have heard it that way many times. Dave F >| > In the unexplored parts of these maps they were reputed to write "Here be >| > dragons" I have seen copies of several of these maps, but never seen [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Medieval English, or cod Medieval English. >I have heard it that way many times. Perhaps the use of a dialect form associated with the uneducated, who might honestly believe in such things, or the same older useage still surviving amongst educated map-makers, engravers and publishers in the 15th century. Even today you can hear "we be" instead of "we are" in the English west country as a survival of these forms from before the introduction of the English Bible in the 16th century. SignatureDave OSOS#24 dswindell.gerbil@tcp.co.uk Remove my gerbil for email replies Yamaha XJ900S & Wessex sidecar, the sexy one Yamaha XJ900F & Watsonian Monaco, the comfortable one http://dswindell.members.beeb.net >>| > In the unexplored parts of these maps they were reputed to write "Here be >>| > dragons" I have seen copies of several of these maps, but never seen [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >the English west country as a survival of these forms from before the >introduction of the English Bible in the 16th century. Did anybody actually use English on mediaeval maps? SignaturePhil C. | >>| > In the unexplored parts of these maps they were reputed to write "Here be | >>| > dragons" I have seen copies of several of these maps, but never seen [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] | | Did anybody actually use English on mediaeval maps? Mostly latin: Ubi sunt "Hic sunt dracones"? See: http://www.maphist.nl/extra/herebedragons.html Ain't Google wonderful. SignatureDave Fawthrop <dave@hyphenologist.co.uk> FTV Satellite ITV, Ch4 and 5. To receive These+Beeb+others, Free To View from satellite get a Next Generation viewing card. Ring 08700 54 1800. *Domestic* card costs GBP23.50. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/digital/channels.shtml >| >>| > In the unexplored parts of these maps they were reputed to write "Here be >| >>| > dragons" I have seen copies of several of these maps, but never seen [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Mostly latin: Ubi sunt "Hic sunt dracones"? >See: http://www.maphist.nl/extra/herebedragons.html I wonder if the expression, especially the "be", has caught on because it sounds like stereotypical pirate talk to suit tall tales - Avast, me hearties, here be dragons, Jim lad. I assume, OTTOMH, that pirates tend to be given outrageous Mummerset accents because of Treasure Island, especially post Robert Newton. A quick Google suggests that Blackbeard's origins are uncertain, whereas Captain Kidd was Scottish, Henry Morgan Welsh and Anne Bonny Irish. SignaturePhil C. >I assume, OTTOMH, that pirates tend to be given outrageous Mummerset >accents because of Treasure Island, especially post Robert Newton. A >quick Google suggests that Blackbeard's origins are uncertain, whereas >Captain Kidd was Scottish, Henry Morgan Welsh and Anne Bonny Irish. Going back a little further, ISTR that Drake and many of his contemporaries, regarded with some justice as pirates by the Spanish, were from the West Country. SignatureJohn Hall "One half of the world cannot understand the pleasures of the other." From "Emma" by Jane Austen (1775-1817) >>I assume, OTTOMH, that pirates tend to be given outrageous Mummerset >>accents because of Treasure Island, especially post Robert Newton. A [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >contemporaries, regarded with some justice as pirates by the Spanish, >were from the West Country. Drake, Raleigh and Hawkins spring to mind yet ironically these aren't usually portrayed with West Country accents in films - perhaps because that accent has taken on a "stage bumpkin" image which isn't seen as suitable for gentry. Some claim that at that time even the Queen's accent would have sounded "West Countryish" to modern ears. SignaturePhil C. > Some claim that at that time even the Queen's accent would have > sounded "West Countryish" to modern ears. As in "Moi Lorrd, we had quoite forgart the faarrt"? SignatureBrian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk "We can no longer stand apart from Europe if we would. Yet we are untrained to mix with our neighbours, or even talk to them". George Macaulay Trevelyan, 1919 >|>>| > In the unexplored parts of these maps they were reputed to write "Here be >|>>| > dragons" I have seen copies of several of these maps, but never seen >|>>| > "Here be dragons" myself. In the unexplored seas they drew sea monsters >|>>| > ?whales? >| Did anybody actually use English on mediaeval maps? > > Mostly latin: Ubi sunt "Hic sunt dracones"? > See: http://www.maphist.nl/extra/herebedragons.html > > Ain't Google wonderful. I didn't know of that "Hic sunt dracones" expression, but I always heard "Hic sunt leones", here are lions, which Ancient Romans wrote (and drew) on their maps on the unknown regions of Africa! SignatureEnrico C ~ No native speaker |
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