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Whitworth

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ADPUF - 12 Jan 2007 23:28 GMT
What, if there is one, is the  meaning of that surname?

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Blue Sow - 13 Jan 2007 00:15 GMT
> What, if there is one, is the  meaning of that surname?

What, if anything, does your question mean?

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Blue Sow

ADPUF - 15 Jan 2007 23:43 GMT
01:15, sabato 13 gennaio 2007, Blue Sow:
>> What, if there is one, is the meaning of that surname?
>
> What, if anything, does your question mean?

I am sorry for my English.
As much as grammar is concerned, was my question wrong, or
strange?

I supposed that surnames have a meaning, or at least they have
an etymological history.

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Paul Burke - 16 Jan 2007 08:39 GMT
> I am sorry for my English.
> As much as grammar is concerned, was my question wrong, or
> strange?
>
> I supposed that surnames have a meaning, or at least they have
> an etymological history.

Not at all. Someone gave you a probably correct answer, though I can't
remember who or what it was. The surname comes from a placename (we
haven't used the form "of Xxxx", as in the French "de Xxxx" or the Dutch
"van Xxxxx" for hundreds of years).

To find the correct etymology, you need to look at early forms of the
name, as spelling can change greatly from the original form. The word
was not originally written, and when it was first written down, for
Domeday Book, a charter, or a terrier for example, the scribe would have
had to make some assumption about the way the name was constructed,
often leading to false etymologies.

"whit" sounds to me like a form of "white", which could be descriptive
or the name of an early owner or occupier. A "worth" was an enclosure,
and although no two placename specialists have ever been known to agree,
my impression is that it has rather more security than a mere "tun".

There are places with this name in Lancashire and Durham at least, and
they could easily have quite different derivations.

The rest of the (facetious) replies concerned the Whitworth screw
thread, created by Joseph Whitworth, a 19th Century pioneer of machine
tool design.

Paul Burke
John Briggs - 13 Jan 2007 00:29 GMT
> What, if there is one, is the  meaning of that surname?

English surnames derive from 1) first names, 2) place-names,  3) nicknames,
or 4) occupation names.

In this case "Whitworth" is a place-name in County Durham, meaning 'Hwita's
enclosure'.
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John Briggs

ADPUF - 15 Jan 2007 23:43 GMT
01:29, sabato 13 gennaio 2007, John Briggs:
>> What, if there is one, is the meaning of that surname?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> In this case "Whitworth" is a place-name in County Durham,
> meaning 'Hwita's enclosure'.

Thank you very much.

I read on my old dictionary that "whit" means a very little part
of something, or a little quantity of something.

That lead me to suppose that that surname could have a
denigrative meaning.

Another meaning for "Whit" is related to a Christian Holyday.

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John Briggs - 16 Jan 2007 00:12 GMT
> 01:29, sabato 13 gennaio 2007, John Briggs:
>>> What, if there is one, is the meaning of that surname?
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Another meaning for "Whit" is related to a Christian Holyday.

Not unreasonable guesses - but wrong.  It does illustrate that this is a
field in which you need to consult authoritative reference works, rather
than make guesses.
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John Briggs

Dave Fawthrop - 16 Jan 2007 06:50 GMT
|> 01:29, sabato 13 gennaio 2007, John Briggs:
|>>> What, if there is one, is the meaning of that surname?
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
|field in which you need to consult authoritative reference works, rather
|than make guesses.

Your belief in "authoritative reference works" is foolish.    They are just
the guesses of someone who can shout louder than most.
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Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

David - 16 Jan 2007 08:35 GMT
> |Not unreasonable guesses - but wrong.  It does illustrate that this
> |is a field in which you need to consult authoritative reference
> |works, rather than make guesses.

> Your belief in "authoritative reference works" is foolish.    They
> are just the guesses of someone who can shout louder than most.

That's right, Dave. Let's have a cultural revolution and send all the
doctors and professors out to pick rice and collect nightsoil.

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David - toro-danyo atcost uku fullstop co fullstop uk
http://www.toro-danyo.uku.co.uk/

Mike Barnes - 13 Jan 2007 13:56 GMT
In uk.culture.language.english, ADPUF wrote:
>What, if there is one, is the  meaning of that surname?

Oh look, a thread called "Whitworth". How droll.

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Mike Barnes

Peter Duncanson - 13 Jan 2007 15:10 GMT
>In uk.culture.language.english, ADPUF wrote:
>>What, if there is one, is the  meaning of that surname?
>
>Oh look, a thread called "Whitworth". How droll.

How nutty.

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Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

David - 13 Jan 2007 16:50 GMT
> >In uk.culture.language.english, ADPUF wrote:
> >>What, if there is one, is the  meaning of that surname?
> >
> >Oh look, a thread called "Whitworth". How droll.

> How nutty.

Yes, well, I suggest we let it die.

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David - toro-danyo atcost uku fullstop co fullstop uk
http://www.toro-danyo.uku.co.uk/

ADPUF - 15 Jan 2007 23:44 GMT
17:50, sabato 13 gennaio 2007, David:
>> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:56:42 +0000, Mike Barnes
>> >In uk.culture.language.english, ADPUF wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Yes, well, I suggest we let it die.

I am sorry if I resuscitate it for a while, maybe I have been
unpolite asking that question?
In that case, please forgive me; as I said I am not an English
speaker.

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John Briggs - 16 Jan 2007 00:12 GMT
> 17:50, sabato 13 gennaio 2007, David:
>>> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:56:42 +0000, Mike Barnes
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> In that case, please forgive me; as I said I am not an English
> speaker.

You have fallen victim to a pun thread.  Perhaps you should Google
"Whitworth" with "thread", "nut" and "die".

You have tapped a source of British humour :-)

(Oh, and "tap", as well...)
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John Briggs

Peter Duncanson - 16 Jan 2007 00:33 GMT
>17:50, sabato 13 gennaio 2007, David:
>>> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:56:42 +0000, Mike Barnes
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>In that case, please forgive me; as I said I am not an English
>speaker.

We were playing with words. I apologise if we confused you.

There are many different meanings of the word "thread". These are
defined at:
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1
861719883


For instance:
   7. discussion on Internet: a series of messages in an Internet
      discussion group forum, commenting on or replying to a
      previous message

This series of messages (including this one) is a "thread" with the
Subject "Whitworth".

"Thread" has a second meaning:

   3. ridge on screw: the continuous helical ridge on a screw
   or pipe

"Whitworth" is the name of a standard type of screw thread:
http://homepages.tesco.net/~A10bsa/bswgo.htm
http://www.boltscience.com/pages/screw4.htm

The phrase "Whitworth Thread" is well known to many people with a
knowledge of engineering.

Mike Barnes wrote this as a joke:
>Oh look, a thread called "Whitworth". How droll.

This referred to the two meanings: a discussion thread with the
subject: Whitworth, and the engineering "Whitworth Thread".

I responded with "How nutty".

This referred to a "nut" that fits on to a screw or bolt.
"Nutty" also has a second meaning: "mentally abnormal" or "bizarre".

David then wrote:

> Yes, well, I suggest we let it die.

Which means let's cease this discussion.
However, a "die" is a tool for cutting a thread on a smooth rod or
pipe.

Each of the three messages played with double meanings.

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Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

ADPUF - 15 Jan 2007 23:44 GMT
16:10, sabato 13 gennaio 2007, Peter Duncanson:
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:56:42 +0000, Mike Barnes
>>In uk.culture.language.english, ADPUF wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> How nutty.

How should I value "nutty"?
(Is this an Americanism?)

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ADPUF - 15 Jan 2007 23:44 GMT
14:56, sabato 13 gennaio 2007, Mike Barnes:
> In uk.culture.language.english, ADPUF wrote:
>>What, if there is one, is the  meaning of that surname?
>
> Oh look, a thread called "Whitworth". How droll.

How should I value "droll"?
(I am not an English speaker, unfortunately)

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Phil C. - 16 Jan 2007 12:21 GMT
>What, if there is one, is the  meaning of that surname?

You can look up surnames at -

<http://www.ancestry.com/learn/facts/Fact.aspx?&fid=10&fn=&ln=whitworth>

But don't take any general suggestion of origin as final for a
particular individual of that name. You can see how common a name is
at <http://www.taliesin-arlein.net/names/search.php>.
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Phil C.

 
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