The meaning of "limiit" etc.

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Pedt - 17 Apr 2007 22:14 GMT

I can't, at the moment, divulge the reason behind why I'm asking for
opinions but I would be interested to know what others in ucle would
take the meaning of titles to certain boxes on a timesheet to mean,
and whether or not they think my interpretation is reasonable.

Sorry that it's a bit long.

Scenario:

The boxes & their titles are contained on a series of timesheets that
follow on from each other, weekly.

"Permitted absences" fall into two categories: "Included" (or rather
"Not Excluded") which are such as sick days and bereavement leave and
"Excluded" which are such as Bank Holidays and leave required to attend
interviews.

The section of the form dealing with permitted absences says "state
whether excluded or not excluded from total permitted absence limit".

The titles to the certain boxes in question are:-

1. "Holiday Absence Limit"
2. "Total holidays brought forward from previous timesheet"
3. "Permitted Absence Limit"
4. "Total Permitted Absences brought forward from previous timesheet"

I would take them as meaning:
1. The total amount of holiday you are allowed (i.e. you cannot go over
the figure in this box)
2. The amount of holiday you've already had, cumulatively, from previous
timesheets.
3. The total number of permitted absences you are allowed (i.e. you
cannot go over the figure in this box).
4. Total number of permitted absences that are of the status "Not
Excluded", cumulatively, from previous timesheets.

Person X at CompanyA who pre-fills these boxes has, recently, changed
the way that they pre-fill them and X claims that titles really mean:-
1. Total amount of holiday already taken, cumulatively, from previous
timesheets.
2. Total amount of holiday already taken, cumulatively, from previous
timesheets.
3. Total number of "Not Excluded" permitted absences already taken,
cumulatively, from previous timesheets.
4. Total number of "Not Excluded" and "Excluded" permitted absences,
cumulatively, from previous timesheets.

I'd be interested in what others think the titles to the boxes would
mean to them and whether they would agree with my interpretation or that
of person X at CompanyA.

AFAICS, either I've gone daft or X is spouting forth from the inside of
a male bovine rectum.

Again, apols for the length of the post, please be as succinct as you
wish in reply ;-)

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Pedt
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Peter Duncanson - 18 Apr 2007 00:23 GMT

>I can't, at the moment, divulge the reason behind why I'm asking for
>opinions but I would be interested to know what others in ucle would
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>The section of the form dealing with permitted absences says "state
>whether excluded or not excluded from total permitted absence limit".

That says to me, with great clarity, that "Excluded" absences do not
count against the permitted absence limit.

>The titles to the certain boxes in question are:-
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>4. Total number of permitted absences that are of the status "Not
> Excluded", cumulatively, from previous timesheets.

That is how I would interpret the titles.

>Person X at CompanyA who pre-fills these boxes has, recently, changed
>the way that they pre-fill them and X claims that titles really mean:-
>1. Total amount of holiday already taken, cumulatively, from previous
> timesheets.
>2. Total amount of holiday already taken, cumulatively, from previous
> timesheets.

Assuming that you have typed that correctly it seems that the
contents of boxes 1 and 2 are identical.

It might make sense if box 1 meant:
"the number of holiday days remaining for the year"
calculated as:
"(annual holiday limit) - (The amount of holiday you've already
had, cumulatively, from previous timesheets)".

But that is not what X claims box 1 is for.

>3. Total number of "Not Excluded" permitted absences already taken,
> cumulatively, from previous timesheets.

That again is a limit which I'd expect to be either constant or
decremented as absences are taken.

>4. Total number of "Not Excluded" and "Excluded" permitted absences,
> cumulatively, from previous timesheets.

Repeating from above:

>The section of the form dealing with permitted absences says "state
>whether excluded or not excluded from total permitted absence limit".

Assuming that the time sheet has space where absences are to be
listed, I would expect each entry for an absence would state whether
it is "Excluded" or "Not Excluded". Only the "Not Excluded" days
would be used in calculating the contents of box 4.

The "Excluded" days are, by definition, *excluded* from the
calculation of the value to go into box 4. If there is a need to
keep track of "Excluded" days a fifth box is needed.

>I'd be interested in what others think the titles to the boxes would
>mean to them and whether they would agree with my interpretation or that
>of person X at CompanyA.
>
>AFAICS, either I've gone daft or X is spouting forth from the inside of
>a male bovine rectum.

I would concur with the latter diagnosis.

>Again, apols for the length of the post, please be as succinct as you
>wish in reply ;-)

I've kept this reply as short and polite as I can.

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Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.culture.language.english)

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Blue Sow - 18 Apr 2007 08:47 GMT

>> Again, apols for the length of the post, please be as succinct as you
>> wish in reply ;-)
>
> I've kept this reply as short and polite as I can.

As have I.
I am in agreement with PD.

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Blue Sow

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Pedt - 19 Apr 2007 07:54 GMT

In message <0eja23hdg2srlqk08scaocfl8p2ai6brbj@4ax.com>, at 00:23:08 on
Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> wibbled

>>Person X at CompanyA who pre-fills these boxes has, recently, changed
>>the way that they pre-fill them and X claims that titles really mean:-
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Assuming that you have typed that correctly it seems that the
>contents of boxes 1 and 2 are identical.

I did type correctly :(

>It might make sense if box 1 meant:
> "the number of holiday days remaining for the year"
>calculated as:
> "(annual holiday limit) - (The amount of holiday you've already
> had, cumulatively, from previous timesheets)".

I'd agree that there could be an implied "remaining" to both 1. and 3.
[on the assumption that they were decremented timesheet to timesheet
as required]

>>4. Total number of "Not Excluded" and "Excluded" permitted absences,
>> cumulatively, from previous timesheets.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>listed, I would expect each entry for an absence would state whether
>it is "Excluded" or "Not Excluded".

Each entry there does say whether it's "Excluded" or "Not Excluded".
Apols for not confirming that initially.

>Only the "Not Excluded" days
>would be used in calculating the contents of box 4.
>>
>The "Excluded" days are, by definition, *excluded* from the
>calculation of the value to go into box 4.

This was my view, when looking at the timesheets in question, as a day
stated as "Excluded" turned up in box 4 the following week. It was the
query about this (and other boxes) that prompted X's definitions.

>>Again, apols for the length of the post, please be as succinct as you
>>wish in reply ;-)
>
>I've kept this reply as short and polite as I can.

Thanks for your time in reading through it and giving your opinion (and
ditto to Blue Sow to save a second post).

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Discussion Groups / British English / April 2007

The meaning of "limiit" etc.