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Discussion Groups / British English / July 2007"...delicious meat!"; R4 'Culture Shock'; BBC WS 01:30 GMT 17 JUL 2007
As a note on idiomatics the, presumably Chinese, lady on this morning's broadcast 'Culture Shock' seemed to enjoy the benefits of an editing suite on being assured by an enthusiatic man that he was looking forward to eating her delicious meat. To Those Learning English: beware! In terms of double-meanings, I can only think of female connotations and, had it been a Japan-set feature, or possibly one from an area with a reputation for sex-vac's, I'd've taken it for a genuine translation of flirtatious idiom. In terms of how well one should know company in order for it to be an appropriate usage, generally well enough the idiom has been satisfactorily demonstrated as fully comprehended. And as it may offend those with conditions around which we do so circumlocute and tend to censor, even if it holds strongly for the hostess at a dinner party - and it's your place to say so - it could still prove inadvisably disastrous. Better get a clear idea of what dishes or preparation styles you'll sample and try to refer to one or three or so of them in order to flatter a host/hostess in a UK environment: "I'm really looking forward to your herb-smoked salmon" "I hear your garlic mushrooms are delicious" "So you sautee the venison in claret to start and then add the pigeons after the potatoes have started to cream?" "Oh, I thought you could have a bit of everything with the carvery deal...?" Otherwise a slightly unfortunate overlap from the symbiotic worlds of genetic research nomenclature and social trend observation, also c/o 'Culture Shock'. It seems the Chinese have seen the English-speaking western-Worlds' embracing of the fast-food ethic and video-centric environment; they are, indeed, our companions on the escalator to sedentary inactivity it seems--and at a point scientists announce that, actually, a very high proportion of human DNA is quite possibly classifiably "junk". As in, if we're mostly junk to start with, should junk food not follow as a dietstyle choice? Or would that be leading the fish to the spam chunks after the bike's unbolted? G DAEB COPYRIGHT (C) 2007 SIPSTON -- > As a note on idiomatics .... <snip> If u.c.l.e had more than half a dozen readers I'd submit that lot to Private Eye's Pseuds' Corner. >As in, if we're mostly junk to start with, should junk food not >follow as a dietstyle choice? Or would that be leading the >fish to the spam chunks after the bike's unbolted? > >G DAEB A certain amount of awe is needed when dealing with Mr Daeb's posts. JF > As a note on idiomatics the [...] > To Those Learning English: beware! > [...] All that followed was to be ignored. There were no double meanings in the extracts quoted. Interesting how those who desire but are deprived see that which they desire even where it does not exist.  SignatureBlue Sow > > As a note on idiomatics the [...] > > To Those Learning English: beware! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > There were no double meanings in the extracts quoted. Er, I never said the double meaning was meant but that it would be a highly inappropriate idiom to use in Britain. > Interesting how those who desire but are deprived see that which they desire > even where it does not exist. Yes, like you see Freudian frameworks where there are none. This reply being a prime example. It's precisely the kind of idiom that would show up in the R4 18:30 comedy slot on the lips of Humphrey Lyttleton Nicholas Parsons or Julian Clary. You've never heard of beef curtains I take it? > -- > Blue Sow G DAEB COPYRIGHT (C) 2007 SIPSTON -- >>> As a note on idiomatics the [...] >>> To Those Learning English: beware! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > meant but that it would be a highly > inappropriate idiom to use in Britain. I did not mention the subject of intent. I stated as above 'There were no double meanings in the extracts quoted'. Given that, it would not be an inappropriate idiom in Britain. >> Interesting how those who desire but are deprived see that which they desire >> even where it does not exist. > > Yes, like you see Freudian frameworks > where there are none. This reply being > a prime example. I am glad we agree at last. Not aspersions on your mental health then (-: > It's precisely the kind of idiom that > would show up in the R4 18:30 comedy > slot on the lips of Humphrey Lyttleton > Nicholas Parsons or Julian Clary. As a regular listener, I doubt that very much. On Julian Clary's own shows, quite possibly. > You've never heard of beef curtains I > take it? You take it correctly. I have not heard (or read) that phrase until this moment. Neither has the on-line OED (as recommended elsewhere in this group). SignatureBlue Sow > >>> As a note on idiomatics the [...] > >>> To Those Learning English: beware! [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > I am glad we agree at last. Not aspersions on your mental health then (-: > > You've never heard of beef curtains I > > take it? > > You take it correctly. I didn't coin it. But I have heard it. Similarly, I have heard other allusions such as: "never eat rotten meat" used of females specifically (although in the generic sense it's probably more widely used of males--even so far as the body- builder meat-head cliche recently recast as The Himbo). For the record: I did not ask people to throw such idioms in my face, btw, nor am I aware I explicitly encouraged it. However I do refuse to not be interested in any kind language use, one way or another. As far as context goes, all sorts of people say all sorts of things to tappesterres and especially as the night goes on. > I have not heard (or read) that phrase until this moment. > Neither has the on-line OED (as recommended elsewhere in this group). Its usage has been informal in my experience so far, yes. Although I may have seen it in print, or something very similar, I could not stand before a judge and state I definitely have. And nor can I can provide a reference, IS*N or other publication ID. I have no idea how widespread it is either. It was something I now have more information on thanks to you guys (i.e., no one who posts here had heard of it it seems). > -- > Blue Sow G DAEB COPYRIGHT (C) 2007 SIPSTON -- >>> You've never heard of beef curtains I >>> take it? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > generic sense it's probably more widely > used of males Might one enquire where you hear these phrases? > builder meat-head cliche recently recast > as The Himbo). Himbo? That is quite amusing as 'Bimbo' is Italian, meaning a (baby) boy. When referring to a girl ('blonde' or not) one might say 'bimba'. Thus 'himbo' seems to imply a male boy, which might be considered a tautology. > For the record: > I did not ask people to throw such idioms > in my face, That is just as well, given what you imply they mean. > However I do refuse to not be > interested in any kind language use, one > way or another. And why should you? > As far as context goes, all sorts of people > say all sorts of things to tappesterres and > especially as the night goes on. Perhaps you could explain what the word 'tappesterres' means and from which language it is taken. >> I have not heard (or read) that phrase until this moment. >> Neither has the on-line OED (as recommended elsewhere in this group). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > print, or something very similar, I could not > stand before a judge and state I definitely have. Informal usage is not a barrier to acceptance into the OED. The amount of use is a determinant so perhaps if someone else uses it, it may yet achieve glory. > (i.e., no one who posts here > had heard of it it seems). I doubt that anyone who posts here is surprised by that. SignatureBlue Sow > >>> You've never heard of beef curtains I > >>> take it? [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Perhaps you could explain what the word 'tappesterres' means and from which > language it is taken. English. Either of the Spenserian or Chaucerian variety. I'm tending to think Spenserian but will need to spend some time with my nose in a book to verify. Ad as I know I've seen it I'm not about to that right now this minute. In this instance I derived it from Tappestresse, but the difference is purely in gender and the licensed trades have more of a history of involving both than tapestry weaving (seamstressing) does. It may not be in widespread use now, with the norm being to talk of barmen and barmaids--even bartender (which is in the concise Oxford) and barkeep (which isn't) both have distinctly transatlantic resonances. Again, a word which has led to interplay as there have been technological developments in that once there were wooden casks of beer behind the bar that had a tap from which jugs were drawn whereas now the tendency is for some kind of pumping mechanism often gas-aided from a pressurised keg, and these are referred to simply as pumps. Get behind the scenes in the cellar, however, and there are the processes such as racking, tapping and venting in the preparation of casks. There is however not an electric pump I've seen which does not have a tap on it of some kind for priming and other purposes--even if automatically activated. It has the disadvantage that it has is no gender- neutral form, but nicely implies a level of some expertise that falls between the extremes of simply pulling pints and running the shop. It's also a nice term to have at hand for historical fiction. If I've brought to bear on it a form which isn't there in (late-) Middle English would you know the correct ending? > >> I have not heard (or read) that phrase until this moment. > >> Neither has the on-line OED (as recommended elsewhere in this group). [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Informal usage is not a barrier to acceptance into the OED. The amount of use > is a determinant so perhaps if someone else uses it, it may yet achieve glory. Not making it into print is though. > > (i.e., no one who posts here > > had heard of it it seems). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > -- > Blue Sow G DAEB COPYRIGHT (C) 2007 SIPSTON -- [snip] >>> As far as context goes, all sorts of people >>> say all sorts of things to tappesterres and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Either of the Spenserian or Chaucerian variety. Thanks. > In this instance I derived it from Tappestresse, > but the difference is purely in gender and the > licensed trades have more of a history of involving > both than tapestry weaving (seamstressing) does. And is this how you earn your honest crust? I imagine the hours of working must be quite taxing. > It may not be in widespread use now, with the norm > being to talk of barmen and barmaids I would go further and venture that it is not in use at all. Few people speak Middle English these days. [snip] > It's also a nice term to have at hand for historical > fiction. If I've brought to bear on it a form which > isn't there in (late-) Middle English would you know > the correct ending? A quick look at a ME dictionary, and a general search, revealed no results for either form. A search of the ME Corpus (prose and poetry) also revealed no results for either form. >>>> I have not heard (or read) that phrase until this moment. >>>> Neither has the on-line OED (as recommended elsewhere in this group). [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Not making it into print is though. That does not apply as OED monitors electronic communications as well as printed paper. So, the term has already crossed that 'barrier'. SignatureBlue Sow |
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