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Discussion Groups / British English / March 2008sleighing..!!!
Does Santa ride in a sleigh or on a sleigh? > Does Santa ride in a sleigh or on a sleigh? No. He doesn't exist. (Didn't they tell you? Sorry!) So he also sleeps with his whiskers neither under nor over the sheet. As to the broader question, I suspect no one would notice much either way, there's no great point at stake. Jingle Bells, for what that's worth, would have it "Dashing through the snow/ In a one horse open sleigh". It's nothing to do with whether the vehicle encloses the occupant, as you (usually) travel in a car or van but on a bus, boat or train. "Me and Jane In A Plane" sang Jack Hilton, but today we go by plane (I expect Jane was in a biplane). JS > JS Ever heard of Usha Uthup? She's in India and has been singing for the past half century! (Don't let her know you know that..!) She has a rather decent version of Jingle Bells ( I would say one up on Boney_M) in which she puts Santa 'on' a sleigh. Got me thinking you know..? Thanks, sprocket. (I wonder why nobody else bit.) > Ever heard of Usha Uthup? She's in India and has been singing for the > past half century! (Don't let her know you know that..!) Not heard of her, I'm afraid. I'm not really into pop or rock type stuff. And singing for half a centrury! She must have vocal cords sronger than my wife's. Are you Indian by the way? I'd got the impression you were Italian. > She has a rather decent version of Jingle Bells ..in which she puts Santa 'on' a sleigh. It's not a big point as I said. No one would notice either way. > (I wonder why nobody else bit.) It's been very quiet of late. I think most of the regulars must be Yorkshiremen: - Sithee lad. - Aye. (3 hours silence) - Ah'll get me coat. -'Appen. JS At 08:30:17 on Wed, 12 Mar 2008, sprocket <jas@spam.cop.uk> wrote in <fr84qh$rlg$1@aioe.org>: >Are you Indian by the way? I'd got the impression you were Italian. The IP address in the headers of his posts resolves to New Delhi. >> (I wonder why nobody else bit.) > >It's been very quiet of late. There's little point in posting where the reply is not contentious and one agrees with it! > I think most of the regulars must be Yorkshiremen: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >- Ah'll get me coat. >-'Appen. Coat?? You were lucky to have a coat...  SignatureMolly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) > >Are you Indian by the way? I'd got the impression you were Italian. > > The IP address in the headers of his posts resolves to New Delhi. Yup. Glad you associated India with N.Delhi. There have been men who concluded I lived in an appache settlement when informed I was an Indian! It's funny. In India we consider the American Indian as a "Red Indian". (In school we were taught Columbus named them so because he thought he had in fact reached India, the destination he had originallyset out for. (Didn't know there was a whole new continent blocking his way.) In certain cities in Europe people exclaimed "Oh, the East India!" when I said I was from India. Until then I never knew I was not just an Indian, but an East Indian! Either way, there are a few things we share with Italy. Sonia Gandhi, Pizzas. If you're not deep in to world politics you may not know who Sonia Gandhi is, but it really doesn't matter. With the fast-food culture catching on, we now have, apart from McDonalds and Kentucky Fried Chickens, a chain of Pizza Huts in the major metros of India. At 00:28:51 on Thu, 13 Mar 2008, Paul <paulmathewmac@gmail.com> wrote in <6601ec01-9f5f-41d4-92e3-5a64144e214c@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com>: >Yup. Glad you associated India with N.Delhi. There have been men who >concluded I lived in an appache settlement when informed I was an >Indian! It's funny. In India we consider the American Indian as a >"Red Indian". The acceptable term, in US and UK English, is "Native American"; "Red Indian" is now seen as offensive. Incidentally, the "American" bit of the name refers to the continents, not to the United States; so someone of appropriate ethnic origin living in Canada or Peru is still a Native American. >In certain cities in Europe people exclaimed "Oh, the East India!" when >I said I was from India. Until then I never knew I was not just an >Indian, but an East Indian! I don't know how the terms go in other European languages, but in UK English "East Indies" refers (very roughly) to the islands between Asia and Borneo - Malaysia, the Philippines etc. India, Pakistan and Bangledesh are sometimes classified as "the sub-continent". >With the fast-food culture catching on, we now have, apart from >McDonalds and Kentucky Fried Chickens, a chain of Pizza Huts in the >major metros of India. I'm very sorry to hear it. To counter-balance this, however, there now seems to be a balti house in just about every town or village in the UK! SignatureMolly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) > The acceptable term, in US and UK English, is "Native American"; "Red > Indian" is now seen as offensive. As you go on to point out, the term covers every one from an Inuit to a Fuegan. I once proposed Asana (Aboriginal sub-Arctic North Americans) for what used to be called "Red Indians", but it didn't catch on. Pity, it has a nice ethnic sound. > India, Pakistan and > Bangledesh are sometimes classified as "the sub-continent". Mainly for cricketing purposes. > there now > seems to be a balti house in just about every town or village in the UK! Balti is of course as absolutely British as our national dish, Chicken Tikka Masala. It was invented in Birmingham. I understand it means 'bucket' in the original language. JS >> The acceptable term, in US and UK English, is "Native American"; "Red >> Indian" is now seen as offensive. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Mainly for cricketing purposes. No, it's because Pakistan and Bangladesh object to the descriptive phrase "Indian Sub-Continent". SignatureJohn Briggs > It's nothing to do with whether the vehicle encloses the occupant, as > you (usually) travel in a car or van but on a bus, boat or train. "Me > and Jane In A Plane" sang Jack Hilton, but today we go by plane (I > expect Jane was in a biplane). > > JS I vaguely remember listening to a song that went something like "I'm leaving on a jet plane Don't know when I'll be back again..." >> It's nothing to do with whether the vehicle encloses the occupant, as >> you (usually) travel in a car or van but on a bus, boat or train. "Me [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "I'm leaving on a jet plane > Don't know when I'll be back again..." "Leaving on a Jet Plane" - best known from the version by Peter, Paul and Mary in 1969, but it was actually written by John Denver in 1967. SignatureJohn Briggs > >> It's nothing to do with whether the vehicle encloses the occupant, as > >> you (usually) travel in a car or van but on a bus, boat or train. "Me [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > John Briggs Molly Mockford "I'm very sorry to hear it" I'm confused. Why should one be sorry to hear that McDonald's and KFC are fad in India? And why should one look for a counter-balance in the Baaltis in towns and villages of U.K? Sprocket "I understand it means 'bucket' in the original language." JS I'm sure you did know "the original language" is Hindi (erstwhile Hindustani). The word does mean 'bucket'. (I checked an online dictionary. Hindi is not my mother-tongue. I live in the southernmost tip of "the subcontinent". ) However like all of you, we in the South of India too relish 'Northy' delicasies like 'kabaabs', stuff baked in the 'Tandoori Oven' and of course, Chicken Ticka Masaala'. (Did anyone watch the teleserial 'Tandoori Nights'? It's about an Indian restaurateur in London if I remember correctly. And it was hilarious. And should I address you as Sprocket or JS? How do you expand JS? John Briggs "No, it's because Pakistan and Bangladesh object to the descriptive phrase "Indian Sub-Continent"." I never knew there was such a reason behind it. I thought the press simply liked to shorten a frequently used coinage! Though, geographically closer to Pakisthan and Bangladesh, this bit of news was never brought to the attention of the newspaper readers in India. But then, until I traveled west, (US to be specific) I hadn't realised (my comp says I should spell it with a 'z' . Should I?) that there is a version of the political map of India where half of Kashmir is shown as Pakistani territory. (Needless to say, this edition of the map is banned in India.) But then, my knowledge of life and things are limitted. I find solace in the Upanishads : '"the sea of knowledge is vast, but the ocean of ignorance is vaster, still." We have this reservoir of water called the " Indian Ocean" to the south of us. I wonder when British press will rename it "The Ocean" in order not to hurt sentiments in Pakistan and Bangladesh. And we have this sea called "The Arabian Sea" to the west of us. May be we should consider renaming it during the next Middle East conflict depending on whose side we are on. (In India, quite often we are not sure whose side we are on. During Saddam's occupation of Kuwait, there was one political observer who wrote "In a war which Saddam called the mother of all battles, he faced a defeat which was the father of all defeats and in the process, India committed a diplomatic blunder which was the grandmother of all diplomatic blunders". I'm so glad John Briggs is back after what I think was a brief period of hibernation. And now that we are on the subject of cuisine, could someone tell me what it was that Oliver Goldsmith had in mind when in "The School for Scandal" he described the "Naabob from Calcutta coming home with "crackers and sweetmeet" from India? Did he refer to 'Samosas' by the word 'crackers'? The context is such that I cannot think he took 'fireworks' home. -- Paul schrieb: <snip> > And now that we are on the subject of cuisine, could someone tell me > what it was that Oliver Goldsmith had in mind when in "The School for > Scandal" he described the "Naabob from Calcutta coming home with > "crackers and sweetmeet" from India? > Did he refer to 'Samosas' by the word 'crackers'? The context is such > that I cannot think he took 'fireworks' home. I suspect that the "cracker" referred to may be "a dry thin crispy baked bread product that may be leavened or unleavened" (as it says in the Merriaqm Webster On-Line Dictionary) rather than the firework- type cracker. I remember with some pleasure eating cream crackers with butter and cheese before I came to Germany - I also loved to eat them plain when I was a child. Of course samosas are also have a crispy covering made from flour, but all those I've eaten also had a filling. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan At 13:35:13 on Wed, 19 Mar 2008, Paul <paulmathewmac@gmail.com> wrote in <c6dc3e30-8ce8-4544-acc8-c91a4c60b634@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com>: >Molly Mockford >"I'm very sorry to hear it" > >I'm confused. Why should one be sorry to hear that McDonald's and KFC >are fad in India? And why should one look for a counter-balance in the >Baaltis in towns and villages of U.K? I don't like to see American corporations trying to take over the world. In particular, I'm not a fan of Macdonalds and their highly dubious corporate practices. I don't like seeing such fast-food places on every street corner in this country, and if I were fortunate enough to visit India I would not like to see Macdonalds and KFC all over the place. In fact, I don't care for the ethos of fast-food at all; it makes for an unhealthy and unbalanced diet, and it's one of the reasons why UK children are obese and sluggish, in stark contrast to some other countries where a child would be thankful to eat in a week what some of our children eat in a day. If you get the chance to see the film "Supersize Me", watch it. But don't go for a burger first. SignatureMolly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) <snip> > it's one of the reasons why UK children are obese and sluggish... This may have been discussed before, but whatever happened to British as an adjective meaning 'of or pertaining to the Britain, Great Britain, the British Isles or the United Kingdom'? SignatureNoel At 23:50:36 on Wed, 19 Mar 2008, Ildhund <jnllb@removemsn.com> wrote in <frs8ve$hmg$1@registered.motzarella.org>: ><snip> >> it's one of the reasons why UK children are obese and sluggish... > >This may have been discussed before, but whatever happened to British as an >adjective meaning 'of or pertaining to the Britain, Great Britain, the >British Isles or the United Kingdom'? I tend to use UK when counter-balancing it against US, as we have been doing rather a lot in this group lately :-) (The idea to be to avoid using "American", which is a distinctly imprecise term.) So my use of UK in this particular thread was a carry-over from the interaction with aue. SignatureMolly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) > I'm confused. Why should one be sorry to hear that McDonald's and KFC > are fad in India? (1) They don't serve food, but a dodgy version of fashion. (2) India has a cuisine to rival China, Japan, Persia and France. It's disappointing that people in any of these places could be so undiscriminating as to be attrracted to glitzy American junk. (3) It's also disappointing that globalizification could take hold in a civilisation with so much to be proud of. > I'm sure you did know "the original language" is Hindi I wasn't sure which- the commonly used "Subcontinental" languages in the UK are Hindi, Urdu and Gujarati, though there are others. > And should I address you as Sprocket or JS? How do you expand JS? Jack Sprocket. Kindly Call Me God, or call me a taxi. > I hadn't > realised (my comp says I should spell it with a 'z' . Should I?) Turn on UK English spellchecker, or stick to US. The choice is yours. > that > there is a version of the political map of India where half of Kashmir > is shown as Pakistani territory. (Needless to say, this edition of > the map is banned in India.) Part of Kashmir IS Pakistani territory. Another bit is Chinese. You've had several wars over it, largely the result of politicians failing to notice the difference between 'it is' and 'I'd like it to be'. It might be better off as an independent country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir#Current_status_and_political_divisions JS At 08:20:19 on Thu, 20 Mar 2008, sprocket <jas@spam.cop.uk> wrote in <frt788$6hq$1@aioe.org>: >> I hadn't >> realised (my comp says I should spell it with a 'z' . Should I?) > >Turn on UK English spellchecker, or stick to US. The choice is yours. I think it's an Oxford versus Cambridge thing - IIRC, the Oxford style (OED, OUP etc.) inclines towards the -ize formation (particularly where the word is derived from the Greek), while the Cambridge style is -ise. Where a word is not derived from the Greek, both sources agree on -ise. So in UK English one is generally safer with -ise unless one wants to check the etymology - however, some verbs (e.g. prize, capsize) are never spelt with -ise. SignatureMolly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) In uk.culture.language.english on Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:39:19 +0000, Molly Mockford <nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote: }So in UK English one is generally safer with -ise unless one wants to }check the etymology - however, some verbs (e.g. prize, capsize) are }never spelt with -ise. Oh. So I do need to prise your fingers from the keyboard them ? {R} At 19:52:51 on Thu, 20 Mar 2008, {R} <nospam@spam.nium.org> wrote in <k1g5u3t03l885if8g3kumrceltn8v93iut@4ax.com>: >In uk.culture.language.english on Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:39:19 +0000, Molly >Mockford <nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Oh. So I do need to prise your fingers from the keyboard them ? I would prize your friendship more if you didn't! SignatureMolly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) John Briggs Sheridan's 'School for Scandal' is one of the most representative plays of the genre 'the comedy of manners'. If we're willing to forgo our intellectual pretensions for the moment, it even provides interesting reading! I have nostalgic memories of watching this play brilliantly staged by a British theatrical group (I forget which) back in the early eighties in the city of Madras (now re-christened 'Chennai'.), the performance being sponsored by the British Council. Sir Oliver Surface, uncle of Charles and Joseph Surface, is due to arrive from India, and Joseph Surface alleges that his brother has been receiving a generous bounty sent by his uncle in India where as he has had to be satisfied with 'crackers and sweetmeat.' The phrase, is not apparently used in the same sense as " the green stuff" or "mega bucks" . (Infact I have never heard it used in the same sense anywhere else!) So, Briggs, with all my respect, that was a really wild shot you took! I endorse Einde O'Callaghan, conceding the point that samosas do come with a filling of mashed potatoes, sliced carrots, beetroot and a few green peas thrown in for the 'crunch'. May be samosas do not fit the exact idea of a 'cracker'. Einde O'Callaghan Those from the UK may, with ease, surmise where you migrated (?) to Germany from by your very surname, but I do not and am curious to find out. Do let me hear from you. Molly Mockford Which multinational or for that matter 'desi' (read 'native') corporate house sticks to 'non-dubious' business practices? When you roll up your sleeves and get in to the business of amassing wealth, the sky is the limit and all means, utterly valid. To talk about social commitment etc. at that point would only be with a view to enhance sales. I have noticed of late there are many plywood manufacturers who come out with ads proclaiming they plant a sapling for each tree they fell.. They would have us believe that they are more ardent about the ecology than the Greens themselves. I choose not to believe a word of what they say. > And now that we are on the subject of cuisine, could someone tell me > what it was that Oliver Goldsmith had in mind when in "The School for > Scandal" he described the "Naabob from Calcutta coming home with > "crackers and sweetmeet" from India? > Did he refer to 'Samosas' by the word 'crackers'? The context is such > that I cannot think he took 'fireworks' home. I'm embarrassed to have to own that I don't know the play. But the Nabobs referred to weren't Indians; they were Britons who had gone to India, usually under the auspices of the East India Company, to find a fortune or more usually death. "Crackers and Sweetmeats" would probably refer to wealth, not food. JS >> And now that we are on the subject of cuisine, could someone tell me >> what it was that Oliver Goldsmith had in mind when in "The School for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > fortune or more usually death. "Crackers and Sweetmeats" would > probably refer to wealth, not food. Well, to be more precise, the Nabobs were only those who returned home fabulously wealthy - rather than the larger number who sought that wealth. SignatureJohn Briggs |
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