Question about plurals.

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Martin Sondergaard - 20 Mar 2008 07:46 GMT

Consider these two sentences:

A group of men played with the dogs. They were energetic.

The word "they" may possibly refer to "the group of men",
not to the dogs.

This seems illogical, because "A group" is single,
it is not plural, so "they" cannot refer to it.
So is the phrase "A group of men" a special sort of plural,
so that "they" can be applied to it?

Can the phrase "a group of men" be sometimes treated
as singular, and sometimes as plural?

Is there a category of similar phrases,
called by a term known to linguists,
which have this property of being sometimes singular
and sometimes plural?

--
Martin Sondergaard,
London, UK.

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Einde O'Callaghan - 20 Mar 2008 09:06 GMT

Martin Sondergaard schrieb:

> Consider these two sentences:
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> which have this property of being sometimes singular
> and sometimes plural?

Virtually all nouns that refer to groups behave in this way. Take for
example the word "company": "Our company is based in the South-west of
England. We supply high-quality widgets to the widget-processing industry."

Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

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sprocket - 20 Mar 2008 09:33 GMT

> Virtually all nouns that refer to groups behave in this way. Take for
> example the word "company": "Our company is based in the South-west of
> England. We supply high-quality widgets to the widget-processing industry."

That's a poor example, as the "we" refers back to the group of people
represented by "our". But the core is true. You'll hear "The majority
are" more often than "is" and "The RAF were bombing Berlin", not "was".
But always "a mob was burning and looting". There may be a principle to
be distilled from all this, but I doubt it.

JS

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Einde O'Callaghan - 20 Mar 2008 10:03 GMT

sprocket schrieb:

>> Virtually all nouns that refer to groups behave in this way. Take for
>> example the word "company": "Our company is based in the South-west of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> That's a poor example, as the "we" refers back to the group of people
> represented by "our".

But it also works if I talk about "My company ... We supply ..." or
"Company X ... They ..." - so I disagree that the "we" refers back to
"our" - but I will accept that the example is potentially confusing.

As an English teacher in EFL sector I often have to deal with questions
where plural pronouns are sued to refer back to a group where the word
is actually in the singular. This pehnomenon is also referred to in
guides to usage such as Michael Swan's "Modern English Usage".

Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

> But the core is true. You'll hear "The majority
> are" more often than "is" and "The RAF were bombing Berlin", not "was".
> But always "a mob was burning and looting". There may be a principle to
> be distilled from all this, but I doubt it.

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Tony Mountifield - 20 Mar 2008 12:23 GMT

> Consider these two sentences:
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> So is the phrase "A group of men" a special sort of plural,
> so that "they" can be applied to it?

In this case, "they" doesn't refer to the "group", which is the unit
of aggregation, but to the individual "men" comprising the group.

> Can the phrase "a group of men" be sometimes treated
> as singular, and sometimes as plural?

Probably. On this issue, it might be better to think about present-tense
verb usage (which in the 3rd person varies based on subject number) rather
than postcedent (?) pronouns:

"A group of men is playing with the dogs." or "A group of men are playing
with the dogs."?

> Is there a category of similar phrases,
> called by a term known to linguists,
> which have this property of being sometimes singular
> and sometimes plural?

I don't know, but would be interested to find out.

Cheers
Tony

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Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org

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Discussion Groups / British English / March 2008

Question about plurals.