When and why "Rafe"?

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Bill Smith - 18 Nov 2008 20:50 GMT

The broadcast media seem to have decided that "Ralph" should be
pronounced "rafe". I've known of, for example, Ralph Richardson and
Ralph Vaughan Williams for most of my life, but suddenly and fairly
recently they've become "rafes". Any justification for this?

Regards,

BS

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John Briggs - 18 Nov 2008 21:42 GMT

> The broadcast media seem to have decided that "Ralph" should be
> pronounced "rafe". I've known of, for example, Ralph Richardson and
> Ralph Vaughan Williams for most of my life, but suddenly and fairly
> recently they've become "rafes". Any justification for this?

"Rafe" is the traditional English pronunciation. "Ralph" is a modern
spelling-pronunciation, and hence associated with the newly literate in an
age of general literacy. The Norman "Radulf" (Radulphus) became "Raulf" -
and "Raoul" in France.

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John Briggs

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Bill Smith - 19 Nov 2008 10:08 GMT

> > The broadcast media seem to have decided that "Ralph" should be
> > pronounced "rafe". I've known of, for example, Ralph Richardson and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> age of general literacy. The Norman "Radulf" (Radulphus) became "Raulf" -
> and "Raoul" in France.

Read this* at uni fifty years ago, when the prof used "Ralph", not
"Rafe". Googled the title today and couldn't find any other spelling of
the name in any of the links, so how modern's your modern?

> The first English comedy was *Ralph Royster Doyster, acted in 1551, and
> written by Nicholas Udall, master of Eton College

B.S.

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John Briggs - 19 Nov 2008 11:42 GMT

>>> The broadcast media seem to have decided that "Ralph" should be
>>> pronounced "rafe". I've known of, for example, Ralph Richardson and
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> The first English comedy was *Ralph Royster Doyster, acted in 1551, and
> written by Nicholas Udall, master of Eton College

Are you Googling the spelling or the pronunciation?

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John Briggs

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Phil C. - 19 Nov 2008 12:55 GMT

>The broadcast media seem to have decided that "Ralph" should be
>pronounced "rafe". I've known of, for example, Ralph Richardson and
>Ralph Vaughan Williams for most of my life, but suddenly and fairly
>recently they've become "rafes". Any justification for this?

Vaughan Williams pronounced his name "Rafe" and hated it being
pronounced "Ralph". In general, I think we have to go with the flow
and pronounce forenames as the owners wish. But I wouldn't take that
to daft extremes.

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Phil C.

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Paul - 20 Nov 2008 18:27 GMT

> On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:50:56 GMT, Bill Smith
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> --
> Phil C.

I guess one should have a broader outlook and concede that someone
outside the U.K (or even within) might pronounce the proper noun
Ralph as 'ralf' and not necessarily 'reif'. As for names of persons,
it is true that the individual should have the right to decide how his/
her name should be pronounced (so long as this liberty is not taken
to daft extremes).

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Discussion Groups / British English / November 2008

When and why "Rafe"?