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Discussion Groups / British English / March 2009the definded article and computer-related proper names
Hello, I'm not an Englishman, it might be the reason why some affairs in English are problematic for me. Let's take the defined article - "the". Where to use it and where not? I don't mean the basic usage, but sometimes I'm really confused. For example, if there are some proper names. Of course, there are some rules in this case, too (I don't usually remember all of them, but I check in Google if I can), however, still there are some cases where I can't find the answer. The problem is that I write a lot of technical IT-related texts at work and, probably, I make many linguistic mistakes. So below, you can find a few examples of problematic situations. Please, give me correct answers! 1. Let's imagine a software tool comparing images, called "cmpimgs". Which is correct: a) Use the cmpimgs tool in order to... bla bla bla b) Use (--) cmpimgs tool in order to... bla bla bla c) Use (--) tool "cmpimgs" in order to... bla bla bla d) Use the tool "cmpimgs" in order to... bla bla bla For me, this situation resembles "Barbie doll", so I would say B. What about A? 2. Another case - which is correct? a) This information can be found in the log file "cmpimgs.log". b) This information can be found in (--) log file "cmpimgs.log". c) other options... 3. What would be if I hadn't put the attributive word "log"? a) This information can be found in the file "cmpimgs.log". b) This information can be found in (--) file "cmpimgs.log". c) This information can be found in the "cmpimgs.log" file. d) This information can be found in (--) "cmpimgs.log" file. I was taught that we say "in the figure" or "in Figure 2". This is the reason why I would say B. What about A? Please, help me! Thank you in advance. MR At 06:29:08 on Fri, 27 Feb 2009, Marteno Rodia <marteno_rodia@o2.pl> wrote in <d5044239-852a-4864-99cb-1024e27aba74@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>: >I'm not an Englishman, it might be the reason why some affairs in >English are problematic for me. I am not an Englishman either. I am a Scottish woman. This does not mean that I automatically have trouble with the language. >1. Let's imagine a software tool comparing images, called "cmpimgs". >Which is correct: >a) Use the cmpimgs tool in order to... bla bla bla Although you could just say "Use cmpimgs in order to..." >2. Another case - which is correct? >a) This information can be found in the log file "cmpimgs.log". >3. What would be if I hadn't put the attributive word "log"? >a) This information can be found in the file "cmpimgs.log". So, it's a) in every case.  SignatureMolly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) On Feb 27, 3:37 pm, Molly Mockford <nospamnob...@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote: > >I'm not an Englishman, it might be the reason why some affairs in > >English are problematic for me. > > I am not an Englishman either. I am a Scottish woman. This does not > mean that I automatically have trouble with the language. Thank you for your answers. Saying that I'm not English (not even British) I just meant that English is not my mother tongue :) so I'm much less experienced than, for example, you. MR Just in order that we all are more confused... <quote> ...template instantiations. (--nothing here!--) SynaptiCAD’s TestBencher Pro tool is one such graphical code generation and GUI- based... </quote> citation from: http://www.syncad.com/pdf-docs/paper_ecn_interfacing_to_cpp.pdf (PDF!!) WITHOUT THE... :/ MR > Just in order that we all are more confused... > <quote> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > WITHOUT THE... :/ It's after a possessive - and the firm name doesn't include an article - the same as "Mary's cat" (no artilce). Regards, Einde O'Callaghan Tony & Einde, Thank you!! MR OK, next question... what about: The file is generated only when the/-- generic parameter GENINTRES is set .... ?? You seem to whant "the", which still seems strange to me in such a situation. What would you say? MR > OK, next question... what about: > The file is generated only when the/-- generic parameter GENINTRES is > set .... ?? > > You seem to whant "the", which still seems strange to me in such a > situation. What would you say? It's the same situation. The noun part is "parameter", which is not a proper noun, and so takes the article "the". "GENINTRES" is used in this case as an attribute of the noun. If "generic parameter" was omitted, such that the noun part was "GENINTRES" on its own, that would then be a proper noun, and "the" would also be omitted: "The file is generated only when the generic parameter GENINTRES is set ...." "The file is generated only when GENINTRES is set ...." Cheers Tony SignatureTony Mountifield Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org I'm in India and am in no way an authority when it comes to matters relating to grammatical correctness in English. I have heard the the Massachusetts Institute of Technology offers courses related to use of the English language in technology related applications. Technical writing seems to be becoming more and more independent of strict grammatical norms as the objective is to convey the idea as clearly and simply as can be to the user of the product. And the user could be in any geographical locale, East, West, South or North. If I were to construct sentence No.1 I would write "Use cmpimpgs tool to ....." (I wouldn't say 'in order to'). even as I agree that "Use the cmpimpgs tool to....." would be more appropriate as per the norms of conventional grammar. In the case of sentence No.2, if I were sure the user would understand from the file name "cmpimgs.log" that cmpimgs is a log file, I would write "This information can be found in the file "cmpimgs.log". ( When we say "as shown in Figure 2 " the " f " is a capital "F". I do not think it can apply to a file name, unless we are talking about an office file numbered 2 and and stacked in an office cupboard in which case it would be "File No. 2". I'd hate to go against what Tony Mountfield says as I always find his "cheers" so warm and disarming, but I would write "The file is generated only when generic parameter GENINTRES is set ...." disregarding grammar if the product is to be launched internationally. If the technical literature is exclusively meant for use in Britain, then of course, I'd go by the grammatical rules in British English. (Hey, did you know we now sometimes talk of the English used in Britain as British English? How times change.) In article <bddfe5cf-8d95-4111-a510-e277963e7b7d@v38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, >Tony & Einde, >Thank you!! By the way, it should be "definite article", not "definded article". SignatureJohn Hall "It is a very sad thing that nowadays there is so little useless information." Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) > Hello, > I'm not an Englishman, it might be the reason why some affairs in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > find a few examples of problematic situations. Please, give me correct > answers! Hi Marteno, The general rule would be: if you are using a term as a name (in the same style you might use a person's name), then omit "the". If you are using the term as an adjective, or attribute, of a normal noun, then you need to include "the". > 1. Let's imagine a software tool comparing images, called "cmpimgs". > Which is correct: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > For me, this situation resembles "Barbie doll", so I would say B. What > about A? B and C are wrong. Both A and D are correct, although I would use "" in A too: Use the "cmpimgs" tool in order to... In this instance, the object noun is "tool", not "cmpimgs". If instead you used "cmpimgs" as a name, you would omit "the": e) Use "cmpimgs" in order to... To use your Barbie analogy, these would both be correct: f) Use Barbie in order to... g) Use the Barbie doll in order to... In the second case, Barbie is grammatically an adjective; the object noun is "doll". > 2. Another case - which is correct? > a) This information can be found in the log file "cmpimgs.log". > b) This information can be found in (--) log file "cmpimgs.log". > c) other options... A is correct. This would also be correct: c) This information can be found in "cmpimgs.log". But this leaves out the clarification that "cmpimgs.log" is a log file. > 3. What would be if I hadn't put the attributive word "log"? > a) This information can be found in the file "cmpimgs.log". > b) This information can be found in (--) file "cmpimgs.log". > c) This information can be found in the "cmpimgs.log" file. > d) This information can be found in (--) "cmpimgs.log" file. No difference from 2. A and C are correct. It is not the addition of an adjective that controls the use of "the", but whether the object noun is a proper noun (name) or a common noun (Q to anyone: what is the correct term for a non-proper noun?). > I was taught that we say "in the figure" or "in Figure 2". This is the > reason why I would say B. What about A? You were taught correctly, because "in Figure 2" is using "Figure 2" as a name. But your B is not the same situation. > Please, help me! Thank you in advance. Hope this has been of help. It is an interesting exercise to try and codify these kinds of rules! Cheers Tony SignatureTony Mountifield Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org |
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