You are accessing this site in a read-only mode. For full access to all member benefits, including message posting, please login or register. Registration is completely free, simple, and takes only a few seconds.
Login |
Free Learnglish.com registration |
Whole discussion thread
The message you are replying to and its parents are listed in the reverse order with the most recent posts first. This might not be the whole discussion thread. To read all the messages in this thread please click here.
Re: what kinds of cats?
| Tony Mountifield | 22 Apr 2009 16:51 |
> So I repeat my question. Which usage is correct: "how many breeds of dog > are there?" or "how many breeds of dogs are there?"? In English English, > for a start, and preferably with quotations (of either form) from > well-respected literature. Well to my ears the former sounds correct.
But in the absence of well- respected literature, I did a Google search for "kinds of" (including the quotes, to keep it as a phrase).
Surprisingly (to me), in the first several pages of results, countable nouns were pluralised, almost without exception.
Cheers Tony
 Signature Tony Mountifield Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org
|
| Charles Lindsey | 22 Apr 2009 13:16 |
>At 15:58:25 on Tue, 21 Apr 2009, Charles Lindsey <chl@clerew.man.ac.uk> >wrote in <KIGKDD.IuB@clerew.man.ac.uk>:
>Hi, Charles!
>>I am having an argument with the RFC-Editor.
>Since this relates to an RFC, can we presume that the intention is that >it should adhere to the rules of US English, rather than to those of >Commonwealth English? No. The internet is international, and so is the IETF (and it even holds meetings outside of N. America just to enhance its image :-( ).
And the fact that the RFC-Editor actually sits looking out over all the boats in Marina-del-Rey does not of itself mean that US English is to be preferred. The RFC-Editor is just another publishing house and hence has a "house style" which is no more nor less stupid than any other publishing house (and they are notoriously stupid, in general).
So I repeat my question. Which usage is correct: "how many breeds of dog are there?" or "how many breeds of dogs are there?"? In English English, for a start, and preferably with quotations (of either form) from well-respected literature.
 Signature Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------ Tel: +44 161 436 6131 Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl Email: chl@clerew.man.ac.uk Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K. PGP: 2C15F1A9 Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5
|
| Molly Mockford | 21 Apr 2009 18:50 |
At 15:58:25 on Tue, 21 Apr 2009, Charles Lindsey <chl@clerew.man.ac.uk> wrote in <KIGKDD.IuB@clerew.man.ac.uk>:
Hi, Charles!
>I am having an argument with the RFC-Editor. Since this relates to an RFC, can we presume that the intention is that it should adhere to the rules of US English, rather than to those of Commonwealth English?
If the intention is to write the RFC in Commonwealth English, then both Webster and the Chicago Manual of Style are irrelevant; however, if it is intended to write it in US English, then this is not the appropriate newsgroup, and alt.usage.english/alt.english.usage would be better fitted to assist on the usage of US English.
 Signature Molly Mockford They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin (My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)
|
| Charles Lindsey | 21 Apr 2009 15:58 |
I am having an argument with the RFC-Editor. My co-author had written:
but some of them may be required in certain types of article.
and she changed it into
but some of them may be required in certain types of articles.
To justify this, she referred to the Chicago Manual of Style at http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/CMS_FAQ/Usage/Usage89.html where it says:
Q. Several times lately I've written or revised copy to change the word in the prepositional phrase following "kinds of" or "types of" to the singular from the plural"from "what kinds of cats"" "three types of errors" to "what kinds of cat," "three types of error." And several times a client has treated the resulting phrase like an error. I haven?t found the answer to this usage question in CMOS. What do you think?
A. Your client is right. According to Webster's, "kinds of" takes a plural if the relevant noun is countable. (Dictionaries are good for this kind of question.)
Do we believe this? And do we trust Webster?
Sadly, Fowler seems silent on the issue, but it seems totally wrong to me, certainly on this side of the pond.
So, can anyone find examples of either usage in well-known literature (and even better in well-known American literature)?
 Signature Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------ Tel: +44 161 436 6131 Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl Email: chl@clerew.man.ac.uk Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K. PGP: 2C15F1A9 Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5
|
Quick links:
|
|
|